Any lecturers out there? RAE stress...!

[Ellbell]

Hi there... Just had a fairly crappy day due to careless comments dropped by my boss about my record of publications. I am massively stressed about the RAE and am terrified that my record will let my colleagues down (we are in a very small unit). I heard that I got promoted today too, but these comments have pretty much ruined it for me. Just wondered if anyone else out there is feeling this...?

Sorry-esp annoyed with academic staff at the moment as am spending my last day here trying to persuade a student not to take his complaint about a 3rd year supervisor to the Office of the Independent Adjudacator. The problem is the student has a case and that particular member of staff has had numerous warnings on this in the past...

ML - 'Harsh truths' - or internalising the values the RAE supports? The 'dead wood' I know did 19.5 hours of teaching a week this term.

Given what you are saying, I really don't see why are you trying to stop him. It may improve the performance of such person in the future or at least prevent other students to fall in his hands .

19.5????

I used to teach 14 hrs a week at university level while also being the head of of the e-learning and multimedia study aids development department . Forget about publications, I just thought about the possibility of having a nap under the desk just to recover from the strain , and obviously, apart from the meetings, most of my work on e-learning was done well into the night. With so many hours of teaching how can you expect to produce good quality publications or even publications at all???

Fine Oldie mum, as I said there are people who are better teachers and they can be worth their weight in gold to a department. But don't pretend on the basis of that "good guy" that all those who don't publish pull their weight in other ways. DH is an SL here, in the past semester he has done the equivalent of 10 hours teaching on subjects well outside his area of expertise, had 2 PhD students, published 3 papers and written (and had funded) 2 grants worth £500k. There is a middle-aged guy also at SL who hasn't published in 5 years, has no PhD students, has never had a grant-funded (and refuses to write proposals) and does 10 hours teaching a week on a Masters course in his subject area. So, a lot of my ire is on DH's behalf beacuse I've spent 2 years living with him being miserable, doing 140 hours teaching last year and working evenings and w/es to get on with the stuff he enjoys (and needs to do for promotion)whilst other people have a very easy life, thank you! Luckily, DH has got a promotion out of here so we may be happier.

Chandra-I have to dissuade him because complaints reflect on the uni not the supervisor. And the supervisor has been here for years, blah-di-blah. Student has gone home to consider his position now!

Well at least that way some other students would know what to expect of the university?

Wonderful your DH has done so many things, many other lecturers do the same. DH and his colleagues in his research group have projects for well above the 5m mark and with the exception of this year, he has an average of 5-8 papers published a year (without considering co-authored works with his PhD students) and still he does not forget what it was like when he had to teach so many hours before aquiring his "seniority". Of course that there are always some quiet fish in the pond, and I have seen some that to my view where kind of "dead" rather than quiet but to be honest, is not nice to generalise, I have friends who complained about the long hours of teaching for the simple reason that such amount of work would not allow them time to do proper research and supervising, and without proper research it is almost impossible to be successful in applying for grants. Believe me, if you were teaching such amount of hours you would understand.

...please don't think I don't understand what is it like to live with the frustrations of an academic, if we are at York now rather than at his previous univ is because I could spot the difference. Unfortunately I would have never expected that the city would represent such a sinking hole in my career. BAd luck I guess...

Congrats Ellbell!
I agree with what other have said. It is hard enough to get promoted. If they promote you you must be doing something right! Go out and celebrate!!1
RAE is a joint effort!
I guess I would like to make sure that I am helping pull my dept... But I'm doing max right now. So I don't see the point on stressing IYSWIM...

BTW, Maria Luisa... any chance you are brasilian?? You have a very portuguese name... I'm always on the look out for fellow brasilians...

I'm not pretending anything, ML. I'm just married to one of your pieces of 'dead wood'. Unsurprisingly, I found your remark highly offensive. As was your rejoinder.

Well, ml, you may be surprised by our views, but my statement about the neighbouring 4 rated department was just that, a statement about that department. You are generalising your dh's experience to tell us where we're wrong, but you can't generalise, can you? Our students are much the same as the 4-rated department students. There are very rarely any that take longer than 4 years to write up in either place, and they get a similar quote of research council studentships to us. I am not saying it's like that anywhere else, I wouldn't presume to, but that is my experience, and I have only ever been in Russell group universities too.

zebra, you're right, I think the quicker turnaround we get for papers makes life much easier for us. Hope you feel better soon.

Olidemum, I am sorry you're so stressed. I hope it all works out for you and your dh.

MariaLuisa15 hours teaching a year in a 5* departmentdo you really mean that? I'm in a 4 dept and average teaching load is probably 8 hours a week, but dp is in a 5 dept and does about the same (difference is more students in my classes, so more marking). And we have the same research leave entitlement, though she has many more and better research students (but then, she has to spend ages supervising them ...)

Oldiemum--that must have been awful for your dp and you. Universities have become very inhumane places.

Oldiemum--forgot to add: if you are on a part-time contract and also have had a long maternity leave your dept can put that in their submission and the panel assessing you has to take this into account. So you shouldn't need 4 items. There is a whole equality document which is all about this sort of thing. You still have to hope what you've got is rated highly, but at least there isn't so much of a pressure for quantity, or shouldn't be.

Oh no... I didn't mean to start an argument. I feel really bad now. Was just upset about some insensitive comments by my boss (which implied that he was very surprised about my promotion due to my 'thin' research profile... the only bit of me which IS thin, btw !).

I'm in a 5* department but have been teaching up to 14 hours per week this semester. Partly because we're small in terms of staff but have lots of students (be thankful for small mercies) partly because some people have been away. I love my job, but it is hugely stressful - especially the pressure to publish, not for the good of the subject (in which I believe passionately) but in order to tick boxes on an RAE submission - and I think colleagues should support, not undermine, one another. However, I'll be Head of Department (for my sins) next year, and will try to be more 'caring and nuturing' about it...

Oldiemum - I have some maternity leave in this RAE period too, and am assured that it will be taken into account. I think a lot is going to depend on how sympathetic the panel is, though. (Actually that reminds me of another of my boss's comments... that I was lucky that there were some women on the promotions panel. He's male, btw... could you have guessed?

Anyway, I shall rise above it and attempt to focus on the many parts of the job which I really enjoy.

Thanks for the support over this, from those of you who have recently posted. I published two pieces in 2002, before I had DD, and both are in top journals. I am working on two pieces now - both are papers I was invited to do, for top journals - so I should be OK. My stress comes from wanting to change research direction and therefore wanting to spend my leave doing new work, not endlessly recycling fieldwork I did 6 years ago.

DH had a terrible time a few years ago, but is now on a teaching-only contract and is, paradoxically, much happier, as he can write about whatever he likes. I was also thinking of a colleague of his, who has been, effectively, forced into early retirement. He is a lovely man, intellectually serious and a committed and caring teacher, but he has found it difficult to get large research grants. It's a sad end to a career dedicated to learning and teaching. Crass remarks about 'dead wood' reflect the attitudes of the people who are destroying others' careers and self-esteem.

Well FWIW I do 18 hours teaching a week!!

Hi Oldiemum, I've been thinking about you recently. I'm sorry it sounds like you are having a tough time at the moment

It's lovely here! I'm sorely tempetd to go outside and enjoy some sunshine rather than literature searching Delphi studies

Hello Mrs Dootlittle. One compensation for all the stress is that we part-time workers can occasionally arrange the weather to be good on our days at home. I've just enjoyed being in the garden with DD and trying to forget about the RAE.

Just seen this thread. After 20 plus years in academic support (I'm an HE librarian) it seems to me that today's bushy-tailed, impatient young academic will be tomorrow's "dead wood" by someone else's faulty definition. Peers of mine who went the university teaching route have all left it now (one or two to retrain as librarians), mainly because of the ludicrous inhumanity of the way RAE can be implemented. All of them were good "teachers" who cared about the interaction with students. Most of them hated the whole RAE process and found it demoralising.
Enjoy the sunshine MrsDoolittle and OldieMum.

Ah consolation indeed, Oldiemum. You have such a beautiful garden

Spot on Marina. On a bit of a tangenthow do you academics who work part-time find it? I think about trying to go part-time a lot, but haven't taken the plunge mainly because I am worried that I would end up losing much of the bits of the job I enjoy most, along with the money. Also, I would like to move jobs eventually (I am in a 4 dept, which as Zebra pointed out is rubbish) and I worry that going part-time will make that impossible. (I am hoping for promotion to SL this yearwould not move for another lectureship.) Mind you I'd also like to have another baby ... maybe ... and worry that three children would mean no promotion/new job ever.

And yet ... would love to be able to pick up dd from school every day when she starts next year. Really don't want her in after-school club day after day.

Hi Mightmove

I share your worries about part-time working. I thought about it after I had dd2, but realised that I'd end up doing the same amount of teaching that I'd always done, crammed into 3 days (or whatever), and would have no time to do anything else... BUT would still be judged badly on my lack of research when it came to the RAE. I might have been wrong, but that's the impression I got, so I decided to stick with working full-time. Again, a lot will depend on the subject and the department you are in.

I think the same thing applies to number of teaching hours per week. I get the impression that some subjects are more "classroom-intensive" than others...

As is so often the case in academic job, much depends on your department and, indeed, who happens to be Head when you are negotiating a part-time contract. I had a difficult battle over this with my previous Head of Department and I had to get the AUT involved eventually. But I now have another Head, who has treated me well, and I am finding part-time work gives me a good balance between keeping the job going and spending time with DD when she is very young. I have to work hard on the days when I do work and I am doing a lot more than the 50% I am being paid to do, but I am glad I made the switch. I am in a 5* department in a very successful institution, however. My teaching load has gone down quite a lot since I switched to part-time. I don't know how it would be elsewhere and, indeed, I may myself come under pressure to do more teaching next year.

Is your department large or small Oldiemum? I have always worked in small departments (at the time when I had my DDs it was 8 or 9 people, in the department where I am now it's only 5) and I was definitely given the impression that the teaching would have to be done somehow and there was no-one else to do it....

Just found out I got my promotion and have worked out that with the pay rise I could go to 0.8 and still be on the same salary that I am on now. That could mean one day off a week with dd2, or picking dd1 up after school most days. Mind you I doubt 20% off my teaching load would really work out to very much, and the bits I dropped would probably be my favourite bits. We have no proper workload model so even working out waht 20% of a teaching load is nearly impossible. Even so, if I could manage to still have one day a week for research (which is what I get now when I'm teaching) it would be quite attractive.

I feel like I need to be really prepared before talking to HoD about it--but would need to broach the issue soon to get it put in place for next academic year. Any tips, Oldiemum or anyone else?