DH been demoted without warning and looking at a £100K pay cut.

[WifeandMotherof4]

He went to work on Friday as SD and came home a sales manager....
Apparently his immediate boss is looking to go 'forward' in a different direction than he believes my DH can take them in. (there is no further explanation). We know this is illegal and there's nothing he can do as he can still earn £90k and couldn't elsewhere.
I think he should try and get a better package, at the moment they're offereing a £15k parachute payment and reducing his basic to £40k. They are a shoddy twattish company who he has worked for for over 13 years. Our outgoings are £3800 per month and we will probably have to move and take our children out of their (quite cheap) private school. There is also current business to get commission from in January which at 3% he'd get £18k ( at worst £9k) and they've demoted him now to give his replacement good weeks to start his new job....this is their best time.
I am at a loss as to what to advise my Dh besides giving him a pistol full of bullets!!!

Usually when giving advice on here I spend much of my time trying to put people off claiming constructive dismissal because it can be very difficult to prove and as compensation is only based on actual financial loss, often not financially worth it either.

However, in your DH's case it sounds pretty clear cut. Have a read here about constructive dismissal. Unexpected demotions/paycuts are examples of constructive dismissal that are easiest to prove. Also in your DHs case he is (was) on a large salary, and another similar job will not be easy to come by, so compensation is more likely to be worth the effort.

To bring a claim he will have to put in a grievance first using the grievance procedure. It could actually be quite a straightforward one simply stating that he is bringing a grievance as this unwarranted demotion and pay cut are not changes to his contract that he agreed to, and that he considers them to be potentially constructive dismissal, and is raising a grievance accordingly. They will be obliged to hear his grievance and some kind of mutually less horrendous outcome could be negotiated.

His options are accepting nothing less than reinstatement on his previous terms and conditions, negotiating a settlement in return for his resignation and dropping a constructive dismissal case, or negotiating a different package to stay on, not as good as before but better than he has been put on now.

Which option is best depends on lots of things which we can't really tell here - realities of your personal situation, of the working environment, all those things.

I do recommend you talk to a solicitor specialising in employment law. Often you can get an initial consultation free, but as it is likely to result in some kind of negotiation, a solicitor would be best-placed to advise you and to negotiate on your DHs behalf.

good old fbb!

I also agree about seeing a good employment solicitor, I think this case sounds quite clear cut from what you have said.

My old workplace was very unprofessional to me wrt sick pay and bringing my work contract to a premature end despite rather desperate and extreme personal circumstances.
I took some legal advice and managed to agree on a better outcome for me.
Good luck, hope you work things out.

It all sounds dodgy and pretty awful - but you are right to be thinking of how you can take practical steps to deal with what has happened. The worst thing would be to try to just carry on spending as much money as you've been used to.

Just a thought - you mentioned that the boss is sending his kids to Clifton College, and also that you are looking to move to a more rural area, so I'm assuming you are Bristol area (would explain dire state options)? ? You dont have to move far out of Bristol to get really excellent state alternatives. I used to live outside Bristol. Backwell is very good, and then further out still there are options like Chew Valley. And the Bath secondaries are generally superb, as good as anything private, so maybe one of the villages outside Bath?

Is this an alternative to redundancy - has there been a consultation? I'd rather take a huge paycut than be fired - at least you have some sort of income. If not, it sounds like constructive dismissal but then he'd have to resign and that would mean no income - he needs to get advice and quickly as he'd need to file a claim with an employment tribunal within 3 months. It may also be unlawful deduction of earnings. I'm not an employment lawyer but I am pretty sure unilateral changes to employment contracts are not allowed. However, if it's changing the basis of commission which may not be contractual there may be little he can do. Get legal advice.

It depends what your DH wants.

If he wants to stay at the company, then constructive dismissal is absolutely not the way to move forward.

But, is his performace in issue? Yes, the company would need to go through the proper process, but if they can show that the same result would have occured, then it could all get a bit murky.

Would s negotiated settlement be a better option?

By all means get legal advice, but once you start sending solicitor letters to an employer you are working for, then a lot of goodwill goes out the window

FTR, Just took a drive around Backwell and Nailsea to have a look at rental otpions... whilst we rent our house.

Good - it will help to feel you are doing something. A friend of mine's kids went to Backwell and did very well there. It;s tough having to change schools out of lack of choice, but at least it's one less thing to worry about knowing that you'll be living somewhere where you don;t feel the need to pay school fees

Wow, more great advice. Thanks. I am thinking of a £45,000 parachute which would take in the £18000 commission owed and potential earnings lost over three months. I will read the link by fbb before making any decision.

I work in sales and this is a very odd thing to have happen to someone who was doing a good job and you wanted to retain.

Was your husband underperforming in his role?
You mention he had to get an extra 10% out of his staff by the end of December was this part of a performance management issue that they realised he would be unable to fulfil?

How successful has he been in his role as Sd?
Perhaps they are trying to rightsize him...I would guess that he has moved through the company to the role of SD. Could it be that once there they realised that the role was just too big for him and have tried, rather kindly actually, to move him back into a role where he thrived?

well the office grew by 80% last year.

that's all just very strange.

office grows under your husband as sd and they demote him just as we are starting a recession?

In sales more than any business a massive amount of importance is placed upon the leader of the staff and their influence on the team.
When we consider any senior manager we do so also taking the feelings and motivation of their team into account. Often if someone is just bobbing along as a senior manager as long as their team are doing well you keep them onboard as their dismissal can have such a negative affect on the team.

Also if the team had made 80% more why were they asking for another 10%?
Why are you saying that he couldn't find another role at this level?
Excellent SD's are always in demand...

If he has had such a stellar performance why would they ever consider replacing him?
There is more to this than you know methinks

My last boss had taken 2 huge banks to court on the basis of constructive dismissal Wife, he had enough to pay off his mortgage and put 2 kids through private school.

You really need to see someone fast and get tough with them - people not getting tough with firms who do this are effectively condoning it and letting them bully more people and do illegal things in terms of their employees.

your husband should log his conversations in order to show to his solicitor, i think.

WifeandMother - I am sorry to hear of your problems - you are in a very similar situation to us (bar the employment issue). We too had a big income (DH owned his own business), lovely home and DD1 was in private school. Our outgoings are around £3000 per month (no luxuries in that) and since the beginning of this year DH's business has slowly gone down the pan. It has come as a huge shock to us all and we had to firstly remove DD1 from her school in September and put her in local State (where she is very happy). Our house is up for sale (we stand to lose around £80-100,000 from selling it at the moment) and I am 10 weeks away from having DD3 so cannot go out and find work. Our life has become one huge mess BUT we will find a way out of it and what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Everyone who has said your DH needs legal advice is correct.

Definitely have a word with the school, I did this and they offered to reduce the fees but we felt it wasn't worth it in the long run, we wouldn't be able to afford to put 3 children through private education so removed DD1 at the best time. If you think your DH will be able to get another job then do what you can to keep going.

Maybe call your Mortgage provider up and request a payment holiday, I am going to do this tomorrow as this would help in the short term until we sell the house.

Good luck and try not to worry too much.

A director at my company was demoted to senior manager - basically they needed his expertise in a different role - but he kept the same pay and conditions.
Your DH has been treated appaulling - forget hsi salary, he has taken an over 50% paycut!
Hope you get something sorted.

Well, we live on less than £15K pa but I'm not going to criticise you because you have more - it's not going to make us richer is it?

I think this an appalling thing and to have to move your kids out of school because your dh's firm are behaving like bastards is really not on. I'd find out all about employment law on encourage dh to fight fight fight.

One advantage to a lower salary, though, is that it makes it easier to change jobs. I worked for an organisation once who paid us hugely inflated wages (great - we all loved it) because it meant the staff turnover would be lower. It was, but most people were miserable. I resisted the temptation to buy a flat (central London) etc as I knew if I wanted to leave I'd never be able to afford it and would be trapped. When I got really fed up with the company - as everybody did - I left with no problems. Many people were completely stuck.

Hope things work out.

Wife&M - your purposeful and calm serach for solutions is very commendable indeed. Exactly the sort of response needed in a crisis.

No one should second guess you on school choice. If you decide to eventually take children out of private schools, don't feel too bad: at weekend was talking to some parents from my children's (private) school and I was surprised to learn how many of them have changed their mind about sending their DC to private secondary. I have always been ambivalent about the private school option. Ideally, a good prep school gives your DC more options at secondary but some parents go for state school + tutoring.

Downsizing house by renting is not a bad idea- again brave of you to take this radical step. Alternatively you could take a (nice) lodger? You get take free rent (used to be 3240 pa but I haven't checked recently)
.
Others have mentioned mortgage holiday. Also changing to interest only mortgage? if you were on a fix rate mortgage, you could speak to the bank and ask them to waive the penalty to convert you to a B0E tracker? I would suggest that YOU meet the bank manager yourself in person - take the kids to soften him/her up.

Also, pension contribution holiday? Difficult to know whether to discontinue your life assurance. Avoid doing that if you can.

I am guessing that you have cut the gym memebership, sorted out the lowest cost suppliers of utilities.