Part time: Can employer demand I work different days some weeks?

[Catz]

I went part time at work a few weeks ago and am the first person at work to do that. They are of the view that they can tell me to work different days from normal on a particular week and that I'm obliged to do so. I'd be very grateful for any views on whether they can do this.

A bit of background. When I made the part time request my head of dept and I agreed what my work would be in terms of 'tasks' and I proposed particular days for that. That request went to the 'board' and was approved but I've not had any new contract, letter varying my old contract or even formal notification that it was agreed. I only know that it was because someone at the meeting told me and my pay has been halved with work scheduled for the days I suggested. There are some important meetings coming up in a few weeks on days that I don't usually work. The person running them asked if I would be willing to attend despite it not being my usual days and I said I'd try to but would have to buy additional nursery days and asked work to meet the cost (about £100). My head of dept rang me at home on one of my non-working days and was quite aggressive saying that no-one had ever made a request for childcare costs before (erm - because no-one has been part time before!), the meetings were part of my job and that week I'd just have to work Thurs and Fri rather than Mon and Tues and meet the cost myself. This seems wrong to me but I'm not sure where I stand. Of course I should have a contract and that is the fundamental problem....

I'd be grateful for any advice or experience. Many thanks.

Firstly just because you haven't had written confirmation of a contract variation doesn't make it invalid.

You have proposed certain days, have been informed that those days have been approved and have been working them and been paid for them.

If meetings and so on are often on specific days, my advice to the employer would have been to make that clear as part of agreeing to the flexible working request and considering putting something into a contract variation about varying days occasionally with sufficient notice.

However they haven't done this. Does your original contract say anything about out of hours work at all?

There's no law that says if you are required to work on days you don't normally work your employer must pay childcare costs, as obviously your childcare needs and responsibilities are not their concern. That's a bit simplistic but you get my point. You could however consider refusing to attend the meetings on the grounds that there is nothing in your contract that says on occasion you must work on days you don't normally.

Is there no way you can vary the days you use the nursery with sufficient notice? If there is availability at the nursery to send your DC on the proposed different days would the manager not consider just allowing you to swap? What about DP or DH taking a day off? Or proposing a compromise of half childcare costs paid by you, half by employer?

It seems to me you have two options, dig your heels in and refuse to attend, or compromise. At such an early stage in your part time working arrangement, maybe a bit of compromise might be worth considering, particularly if this is going to happen from time to time.

Many thanks for that very helpful advice flowerybeanbag.
My original contract is also very vague and says that the hours of work are such as to carry out my duties to the satisfaction of my employer.

Unfortunately the nursery will allow me to pay extra days but not to swap my existing days (which is fair enough, that's in my contract with them). DH is in the same job as me so he can't take the days off because he needs to be at same meeting. Grandparents all work and live 2 or 3 hrs away. I feel as if I've got into the mess by trying to be flexible. The person who asked me (who is fairly senior) seemed to assume that I wasn't obliged to attend. I felt that I was going the extra mile by agreeing to come in on additional days without being paid but it does seem unreasonable to ask me to incur expenses to do so. I see that they are not obliged to worry about my childcare costs ordinarily but surely if I'm coming in to do unpaid work at their request it's not unreasonable?

I really don't want to make an unreasonable fuss about it becasue I feel that I'm pioneering the way to an extent. Unfortunately the Head of Dept was the first women there ever, it was quite a misogynist place at the time and she returned to work when her baby was 2 wks old so is not sympathetic!

It's very helpful to have objective opinions on it. BTW are they legally obliged to give me a new contract? This does seem to be the root of the problem Many thanks again for your time.

Why would you be coming in unpaid? Wasn't the suggestion that you just work different days that week, so not extra?

If you would be required to work additional days, you should ask to be paid for those days, which would obviously then cover the childcare anyway I would have thought.

They're not legally obliged to give you a written contract variation specifically, but if you've requested flexible working one of their legal obligations in terms of procedure is to put their agreement to the proposal (or non agreement and reasons) in writing. So yes they should do this.

Many thanks again for your quick and helpful reply.

Re the days being unpaid. Sorry, I see there is ambiguity above. Originally it was put by my senior colleague as 'is there any possibility you might come in for these meetings' with the assumption that I'd still be working as normal the rest of the week. He and I took the view that my job was to work on Mon-Tues but that as a favour I'd also come in on the Thurs and Fri. So in my view it would be unpaid. When my Head of Dept called her view was that I was working part time but it was for them to decide when that would be each week and not for me to choose. So in her view I would be being paid for those days. Her way of looking at things is totally unworkable because I'd have to have full time child care which would be more than my salary and would defeat the point of part time working. If that had been the proposal I would have resigned my post. Indeed this part time job only arose because I went to hand in my resignation and was persuaded to do these days instead. I suppose I could simply not go in on Mon and Tues that week but the work would still be there so I'd just have to do it at home or in the evening so I will probably go in anyway. The problem is that the job is not really 9-5, it's more task orientated rather than hours orientated IYSWIM so trying to work out what part time means in practice is tough.

I don't want to be rigid about this but also don't want to be taken for a ride and feel that this is a fundamental issue that needs to be made straight now.

Obviously it's not acceptable for it to be the case that they randomly decide each week which days you should work.

But occasional variations for meetings isn't quite as outrageous. Regarding your comment about if you vary your days to attend a meeting, the work would still be there, wouldn't that apply to your f/t colleagues as well? And in fact most jobs? That's not a part time or full time problem as such, that's about managing your workload to squeeze in meetings/conference/whatever else into your week. Just my view on that.

I think your best option is to sit down with your boss or HoD or whoever and thrash out the terms of your flexible working agreement properly and get it confirmed in writing. This is obviously an issue that is going to arise from time to time and you need to find a solution between you that is going to work for everyone. You are right not to want to be taken for a ride, and you are obviously willing to go the extra mile to an extent but not at huge expense to yourself, quite reasonably. But the best way to resolve this is with a sensible discussion between all relevant parties so you all know where you stand and are working from the same hymn sheet and next time there is a meeting, there's no problem.

I would suggest you take the initiative, book this meeting in asap with an agenda and come prepared with a couple of proposals that would be acceptable to you.

Thanks again for your reply and sorry to take up so much of your time. Yes you are quite right re the meetings etc taking up everyone's time but it is disproportionate if you are part time i.e you do 100% not 40% of the additional stuff. To put it another way, for everyone else it'll mean doing 5 normal days work in 3 for the rest of the week, for me it'll mean two normal days work in 0 that week (i.e. all in my 'own' time).

Thanks for talking this through it's very useful to get a feel for what sounds reasonable.

No worries. Good point about the proportion of time, and worth making at your meeting. Although I think that's one of the areas people just have to accept makes life a little bit more difficult as a part timer unfortunately.

I have also worked part-time in a task orientated job and been asked to swap my days around.
I used to offer the option of paying for additional childcare or joining the meeting via a conference call (this was on the proviso that my childcare was cbeebies!). Any serious hours I always took in lieu but the odd hour I never bothered about.

If they wanted me to come in, I used to get an invoice from my childminder for that particular day and submit it as expenses. (OK I used to write the invoice for my cm and just get her to sign it, so that she wouldn't have to do the paperwork.)

When I submitted my original application I did include a paragraph that I would try to be flexible and I needed enough notice and additional childcare costs paid for (because I usually swapped days rather than work additional days, so still had to pay for childcare on my in-lieu day).

So it is not unknown, but we had the technology that meant I could do exactly the same work from home as the office except a face-to-face meeting.

I will also say that as time went by and everyone got used to my hours, the meetings were arranged around my "in the office" hours. For example I could never do a 2:30 appt on Thursday or Friday but I could do earlier in the office or after 4:00 by conference call.

Can you come up with a couple of alternatives, either on your working day, conference call, they pay for childcare or during the school day if your children are old enough. If you can come up with some different options then you should be percieved as trying to work with them for a solution.

P.S. I should say, that they were VERY keen to keep me at that point, just long enough to pass on all my knowledge to the staff in India as part of the off-shore contract, before the last round of redundancies. So I was working from a position of strength which I shamelessly abused in getting exactly the hours I wanted in the first place.

Sorry, I didn't mean to kill this thread, but I usually do if I post anything anywhere