freelancers - would you accept these terms or dig your heals in?

[hatwoman]

I'm interested to know what people would do in this situation.

My former boss asked me to do x days work for him. the kind of work is what I did previously - and to some extent is unknown - ie it's not one finite piece of work. it's several bits that will come to me as and when. each bit will take a different amount of time. and when the days are all used up he'll stop sending it and I'll stop working. I trust my boss 100 per cent not to take the piss and he trusts me not to do the same. all nice and easy.

except for HR. they have sent me a consultancy contract which accurately details the kind of work I'll do. however because of the nature of the work the only way of limiting it is by saying how many days I'll do. HR are refusing to do this - "in case I run over". if I was writing a finite report I see their point. but I'm not and "running over" makes no sense. it annoys me that they are covering their own back and expect me to sign something that essentially, on paper, commits me to an idefinite amount of work. now I know in practice this won't happen, because my boss won't do that. But HR have got a bit of a reputation for being crap with freelancers - taking yonks to draw up contracts, taking yonks to pay etc. and part of me does want to make a fuss. I just don;t think they should take the piss out of freelancers this way. so should I just sign it or make my point? have I even got a point?

Surely they can write in that it will be X days of work, and then add a clause that says that they may ask you to do further work by negotiation (or something)?

WHy do you need a contract? I've never done contracts - I just work on individual projects and for some I just tot up the days at the end and invoice - no quibbles.

So if they are not allowing you to say how many days, what is in the contract?

I did some work last year similar to this. Client and I estimated it would be 10 days work and agreed daily rate. But like you it was a bit flexible and for me, I was particularly worried I might eat up yonks of time in conference calls (some of the people at client offices really like to talk...). So we laid out the project at a high level with estimate of 10 days and agreed that if it required more time this would be at the same daily rate and would be signed off beforehand. Also I committed to keeping them informed (by email) of how the hours were going so they could get a sense of it. I ended up doing another couple of days to complete it.

Seemed to work for everyone.

It is probably not in your, or your former boss's interest to start a battle with HR. If this firm uses contractors a lot they are probably concerned about their employment status - daily rate contracts are a potential indicator of employment, fixed price contracts are not.

I would talk it over with your former boss: you should look at the contract that HR are imposing as something you both need to work with/around to achieve the results you want.

bramshott - they say not - the original contract had it in. HR took it out. and that took the best part of a month.

gobbledigook - do you really never have contracts? what if you spend a month doing x and then the person/company turns round and says "I didn't want you to do x, I wanted you to do y" without a ocntract what comeback have you got? or, for that matter, them.

Mr V - I think you're right about them being nervous about daily rate contracts (this is a lump sum). However, knowing what I know, I also think that they're only up to ticking boxes/inventing and applying rigid rules, rather than actually examining whether or not it would be an issue. (tbh - I have no faith in them even understanding why I might not want to agree to a contract that says "the consultant will ice a number of cakes". They don;t use contractors a lot - but they do use them increasingly. partly because a lot of good people leave because of certain shiteyness about working for them. me included. and now I just feel I haven't escaped that - I'm just letting them carry on being crap.

I think you've got a point. Could you get your boss to intervene?

Could you have several contracts, each one superceding the last?

So if you think it will be at least 8 days work in the first month, the first contract would say "hatwoman will do 8 days work between these dates" (underestimating the amount of days if necessary to make sure it's a number of days you will definitely do anyway.)

Then when you've done the first 8 days - new contract "hatwoman will do a further 8 days work between these dates" or whatever amount seems realistic.

Does that make any sense? I have the worst case of pregnancy brain possible!

How does this contract commit you to indefinite work? Surely if you don't want to do more than x days work you don't have to? I'm not sure why exactly you need the number of days specified in the agreement? A more general agreement will mean you could do more days if you wanted to, but surely doesn't mean you have to? The joy of being a consultant is that they can't tell you what to do, if you're self-employed you do that and either you want to do more work after your x days or you don't.

Apologies if I am missing something.

sorry hatty and fbb - have only just seen your replies. I've got the number of days informally in an email and so am settling for that.

fbb - maybe you're right. The verbal agreement is that I spend 10 days icing cakes. But the contract neither specifies the number of days nor the number of cakes. It just says that I'll ice some cakes for them. to my mind that means that in theory they could say, after I've spent 10 days icing cakes, that I haven;t done enough (and I won;t get my money til I have). Now my former boss won;t do that to me - but this HR dept are not reknowned for their ability to get things right and I just feel a bit niggled that I'm expected to take this on trust. but maybe it's a normal form of consultancy contract? interested to know what you think

I'd accept it, but with a proviso to the boss that if you need more time (which you both agree would only be minimal if it happened, right?) he will have to ask HR to sort out a second contract for the extra time, which he will have to authorise with them etc.

Or, he could offer them the option of redrawing the contract to allow for the extra time, if they fancy saving themselves extra work.

It won't be the HR dept's business or concern to decide whether or not the company is happy with the quantity or quality of the work done. Presumably your invoices will be authorised for payment by your boss as being accurate and the work being acceptable?

Presumably in the contract or in other written communication there is some mention of your costs? If you have these set as a daily rate, just invoice for days spent, which you and your boss know will be 10.

It may not be a very good consultancy contract, but given what you've said, I can't see anything specifically wrong with it that will or should cause you any problems.

I'm just being a pita . you're right - I don't see any problems arising in practice. but (screams and stamps foot) it's the principle.