The swines have withdrawn dh's employment offer, the prejudiced <<insert swear words here>>

[edam]

I know people don't like swearing in thread titles but...

the bastard people who offered dh a job last week have rescinded the offer. Gits. As soon as he told them he's been off sick for a while with depression they started to get funny. Even though he did all the right things, explained it's a one-off situation (to do with his boss), supplied them with a good reference from his last boss.

AND they are a sodding primary care trust so they should know better even if it weren't illegal to discriminate. Which it is.

(And I've just heard my BIL has been involved in a nasty car crash - his fault, he's OK but the poor people he hit aren't. And my sister had to help them, being a nurse and all. She wasn't in the car, it happened a few hundred yards fro the house. Horrible.)

So, not a good day chez edam.

and gutted for your dh edam

thanks, zippi. It's a good job I don't know anyone in the underworld or I'd be sorely tempted to send the boys round to sort the tosser out.

That is so unfair. Sorry for you and mr Edam. Shocking treatment. And I am totally shocked that the the current company have a policy not to complete a reference request form...

I can understand that, at least, they are very firm about it (they reckon it's wiser in terms of not being sued) and it is genuinely their blanket policy. And they aren't unique.

So sorry to hear about all of this.

In a previous life, I was an HR manager in the public sector. We didn't fill in any other employer's reference forms either, but just provided very brief, bland and factual statements. This is a very widespread practice.

As others have said, you need to (or, rather, could if you so choose) check whether a verbal offer of a job constitutes a contract and if so whether the withdrawal of the offer is a breach of contract - although I suspect the answer here is no - and also whether (depending on the exact circumstances) whether your husband has any further protection from the DDA.

Thanks Madbad.

just wondering edam whether MIND etc advise on being upfront straight away - or once job offer is in writing.

so sorry to hear about that edam. Is it cold comfort to say that had your dh got the job, and then disclosed, they would have been pretty awful to him based on his experience so far?
I hope that something can be done, but I also think that you and your dh had a lucky escape from what seems like a narrow minded, bigoted company..

that really sucks edam

I dont know anything about your dh but without meaning to cause offence (if this is ignorant please be assured i dont mean to be)

perhaps your dh isnt quite ready to return to work yet and although this has been a dreadful setback it might be better now than in 2 months into a new job?

are there no agencies that can support your dhs return to work? easing him in and maing aware of his ill health?

also can you not try to get benefits or higher rate of benefit to support you financially at what is clearly a dreadful time?

when my dhs mum died he really fell apart and the doctor was sure hed have a breakdown he too was out of work(wed been living in another area of england and hed took time off to care for his mum and felt unable to return)he took a mindnumbing job mking pallets it paid the bills and gave him the support of workmates oblivious to his grief.

im really sorry you are having such crappy time and hope that things soon look up.

It's not a company, it's the sodding NH sodding S. And I have written many an article with them saying 'ooh, here's a good idea, let's employ some people who are patients, aren't we clever'.

MIND way to work is helping him and they advised him to disclose.

And frankly even if he'd had to leave after two months, at least we would have had two months wages.

But thanks for the sympathy.

Bundle, they wouldn't send a contract until they had references in writing, so no way round it really as they would probably have asked about sick leave.

grrr on your behalf edam

i asked on a thread here a while ago about the pros and cons of filling in the disability discrimination bit on a form to guarantee an interview in the case of mental health disclosure and the general consensus seemed to be dont

and this rather reinforces that

of course it is a vicious circle for your dh that getting a knock back like this is bound to depress him too

i hope he finds something soon

there is such a fine line between things going fantastically well and things feeling awful when it comes to major stuff like job hunting it is a roller coaster

thanks zippi

I work in recruitment and my advice is don't, under any circumstances, declare these problems upfront in the future. I don't care what MIND says it's more important that you DH gets a job.
Most companies will send you a job offer in writing subject to references.
Then it is much harder for them to recind the offer if it is a one off problem and tbh most of them wouldn't try/dare to.
If they query the sickness then tell them that it is a private matter but not chronic but that you are 100% recovered and signed back to work fully fit. (they never ask what if you say it's private)

This is a really bad experience but unfortunately not uncommon.

i respect MIND and also think the stigma attached to mental illness needs to be broken down

but they do have an agenda of breaking it down

that isnt necessarily going to be the best way for an individual to achieve their own goals in the job market

so yes the principle is highly commendable and necessary but for myself i would be thinking of my own short term interests not the greater social good

not a good attitude maybe but i am a pragmatist and would compromise my own principles

Thanks Rhonds, it's good to have that point of view from someone with your expertise.

And quite, Zippi - all very commendable but not if it drops dh in the shit.

Just had an interesting conversation with my neighbour... was pouring out my heart on this and she suggested we could pretend he's been working for her boyfriend and said boyfriend could do a reference.

Am tempted (will see what dh says!) but can't help thinking it would be VERY dodgy and quite dangerous...

i have a bon afide ltd company and i have given all my children references in the name ofr fellow director my exdp

I can see that your neighbour's suggestion is tempting but:

1. You would need to say her boyfriend's company was dh's penultimate employer, i.e., it was the company before his last one (IYKWIM). His P45 and other tax records etc etc would have the name of his real employer and most companies want a reference from the last employer.

1. Overall it's very risky imho and likely to be subject to gross misconduct summary dismissal if/when he's found out and possibly also an action for recovery of salary paid because he would technically be guilty of deception.

Sorry to hear this edam.

Rhonds if I am correct he didn't declare it upfront, he had already had the offer? Consensus on the other thread was that they will find out either from a reference or from a medical questionnaire, so at the point it was going to be found out anyway, having a personal chat with the potential new manager would be a good idea.

I don't think he went into an interview or anything early on declaring it upfront.

And I don't think just saying that significant absence is 'private' would cover you either tbh. I would be concerned about significant sickness absence. Not to the extent that I would withdraw an offer, but to the extent that I would want medical reassurance that the issue was not an ongoing problem and was in fact resolved. I would also want a satisfactory medical questionnaire, upon which the offer would depend in any case. A candidate saying significant absence is 'private' really wouldn't satisfy me I'm afraid.

what a horrible thing, edam. on your behalf. especially as it sounds a bit like they are blurring the lines re the reasons with all this stuff on references.

can you/dh put together something a bit formal in writing - now - to see if there's any chance of rescuing the situation?

something like

"I was disappointed to get your call/letter as I am very excited by the opportunity to work for you....Could you clarify to me the reasons for the change of heart as I am very keen to see if there is anything I can do to adress them...

I can, for example, provide personal references/letter from GP re the health issues

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to change my previous employer's policy on references however I'd be interested to know more about your own policy on the kinds of references you accept as I understand a large number of employers operate a similar approach...

I always dilemma (did I just make up a verb? aaargh) on the disclosure thing as I am a currently very healthy person who happens to have MS. whilst I know I should have the strength to tell people and tell them to get over it (like you did) I'm ashamed to say I don't. I live in fear of what's happened to you happening to me.

Am liking hatwoman's suggested letter. Very good idea.

That's a really good idea, hatwoman. But the guy told dh that he's now taking up references for the second-best candidate. So probably too late...

I'm drafting nasty lawyer's letters in my head and dreaming of knowing some hard men who could go round there and give the tosser a kicking.