Boss making my life difficult re leave when child related

[Tanzie]

My boss will never, never agree to me taking leave earlier than 6.00 pm on the night before I want it. I asked last week if I could have half a day off to go to DD's school party tomorrow. She said she would have to see and would let me know later. I said if half a day was a problem, I would just got for 2 hours (half an hour's drive each way and an hour at the party). She said she would see. I said I could take time off in lieu if she had a problem with annual leave as I had worked 12 hours last Saturday. She finally agreed to this at about 5.30. I started packing up, and she said that I was needed tomorrow at a meeting with someone senior and she would have to cancel my leave - or I could leave after the meeting (and from the timing of it, I'd have missed most of the party and would have got there just in time to pick DD up). I said no, she had already agreed my leave - the Someone Senior would not remember if I was at the meeting or not, but DD would probably remember if I did not turn up for her school party. She pulled a face like a cat's bum and said she "supposed she would have to cover it." And then made me stay late to prepare some briefing for her as she claimed not to know anything about the subject.

I know she has also bitched to a friend of mine (how clever is that?) about "having to do everything because people with children are always having time off." I ALWAYS take annual leave for child related things - school holidays, illness, new nanny etc and do not take advantage at all. I am absolutely sick of her attitude - I can't plan anything and am on tenterhooks all the time in case she won't agree leave and I have to cancel plans I've made. I get 8 weeks leave a year and can never take it all.

Any advice? I am the only woman in the organisation with young children and have noticed that men never have this problem - they are more applauded for being new men and hands on. And I am seen as a nuisance.

My contract is due up next year. I was going to extend it for a year but if this is the way they are going to treat me, I won't bother.

Have only scanned through this quickly Tanzie and need to go to bed, but on your behalf - why do some people seem to enjoy making life difficult for others?
Will look again tomorrow when my eyes aren't closing!

This evening I asked for two days off next week (as it is half term, but didn't tell her this). I said I didn't mind which days I had off, was completely flexible, but would like two days off. She said she couldn't agree anything yet and would have to see how busy we were nearer the time (and as tomorrow is Friday, I would imagine she won't be able to make a decision until next week). AND (now this had my jaw dropping open - talk about one rule for the goose and another for the gander) SHE SAID I COULDN'T HAVE NEXT FRIDAY OFF AS SHE WAS TAKING THAT DAY AS LEAVE!

I wonder if it might not be worth telling her rather than asking her when you want your time off. Perhaps you could approach her boss with this as a suggestion of how to deal with leave in the future. You shouldn't have to give anyone at work a reason why you want to take holiday which you are legally entitled to. And if you need to leave early for something related to your child, you need to leave early. You shouldn't have to explain that to anyone. I think you are being far too agreeable and it isn't actually getting you any goodwill in return.

Agree with SofiaAmes. I am very much in the same position as you at work and over the years I have learnt to be more assertive, but it's still easier for my colleagues to get time off to wait for the someone to come and fix the boiler than for me if my child is sick or I need to attend something at school.

Sounds like she's an absolute bitch to me. In contrast, eight weeks annual leave sounds like a great deal though. Just a shame it is proving so hard for you to take any of it!

I used to have a boss (evil woman, truly satan with a bad hairdo and frumpy clothes, but I digress...) - if I ever mentioned taking leave, she'd twist her mouth like she was sucking a lemon (well, she usually looked like that - a lemon-flavoured wasp, perhaps). Then she'd say 'Oh, I was thinking of taking that as leave too'.

So I used to say days I didn't want, then look all amenable when I said I didn't mind changing for another day/week when the second option was actually the one I wanted [sneaky emoticon]

Can you say something like 'This has really gone on long enough. I am entitled to x weeks leave and I intend to take it this year. Starting with x dates. I don't have to give you a reason for taking this leave, I don't have to wait until the day before to know I've got it.'

It's a power thing. She is probably fully aware you could do her job standing on your head (my boss was - did I mention she was evil?) and she sees this as a way to take control. Tell her that you will be taking those days and if you have to take sick leave, you will and wouldn't it just be easier for her to OK the leave with a smile on her face?

If all else fails, go over her head. She is making your life a misery and there's no need. Alternatively, email her this website and tell her you're not putting up with it any longer. bullying in the workplace

What kind of crap boss refuses an annual leave request made well in advance on the grounds that "I'll have to wait and see how busy we are nearer the time"? . She is obviously totally inadequate, insecure and incapable of planning ahead.
As long as you are assertive and do everything by the book I would stand firm and do some telling rather than asking. Definitely consider going over her head as well.

Did she agree to next week Tanzie - agree with everyone else - you're perfectly entitled to your leave. Hate the way some people make the workplace a misery for others.

It got to 5.15 this evening and I asked her if she had come to a decision on my leave. She asked me what days I wanted. I said any, am entirely flexible. She said I couldn't have Friday, as she was having Friday, Wednesday might be busy (huh?) and she wanted me in the office then, oh and Tuesday might be busy too. She hoped I didn't want two consecutive days. So I am off on Monday and Thursday.

Apparently (according to another colleague) she is very unhappy at the moment. I couldn't even vring myself to make sympathetic noises. We had a team meeting this afternoon (she is head of team) and she was treating us all like 6 year olds. Two of the men in our team are much older and more experienced than her and she is apparently upset because they won't listen to her. She shouts and screams at them and communicates with them by ringing their phones when they are not in the office and leaving tight little voice mail messages.

I am going to see Head Honcho on Tuesday. Apparently she has also fallen out with him as he won't listen to her either!

Oh and interestingly, all the MEN with kids (they don't work for her) have the whole week off for half term!

I'm pleased you've got your two days off, but this situation seems so unfair on you Tanzie.

Could you design a form for your holidays, and just stick it in her pile of stuff for signing/authorising, and just refuse to discuss it in future. Make a point of booking your time off way in advance, and refuse to change it once it's booked and in the diary. And make sure you take all your entitlement too.

Book your Easter and summer holidays now while you're on a roll!

I don't know what your job is, but everyone has busy/pressured days and so on; Everyone has to plan around people taking time off. She is being totally unreasonable about this.

Write to your boss with a copy to her. Have a meeting to sort it all out. If the men get the time off & you don't this is unfair. Check your rights out locally beforehand. I'd look for another job rather than take the stress of this office - is this a possibility for you? If you threaten to leave will this make her behave better towards you?

Yes - also glad you've got your time off, but agree she's being totally unreasonable - to the point where I'm not sure I could enjoy the leave due to unnecessary stress!! Definitely I'd be trying to plan as well in advance as possible and be totally inflexible if asked to change.

Roisin - we do have a form, she just refuses to sign it until she is "absolutely sure we won't be too busy".

I have told my DH that if she comes up with her pea brained idea of making me her gopher again I will tell her where to shove the job. I am already applying for others.

I will go and see HH on Tuesday and tell him a) that she seems to be very unhappy at the moment and that b) so am I as she is taking it out on me. I get on very well with him, we are both fairly straightforward plain speaking people.

I have leave coming out of my ears - now have 12 weeks for this year due to being unable to take it all last year. Perhaps I should just tell her I'll see her in June?

Thank you everyone for all your support on this.

lol Tanzie - enjoy the next four months off!!

tanzie, you seem to be in a strong position in a way. You get on well with your mad boss's boss and also the HR department person. Your boss, on the other hand has enemies.

I do feel cross that everyone is being so inactive on your behalf. They must know your difficulties in booking holidays as this has gone on for at least a year. Does your boss take her full entitlement too? I get the impression she does.

I really think you need to talk to HR about this. You can show them the facts, show them when you have tried to book holidays and been fobbed off. I think the situation has gone beyond you negotiating with your boss. You need get an outsider to step in and sort out this problem. Anyway that's my 2ps worth!

Tanzie I felt so when I read your post.

Two points:

1. I totally agree with Bozza - it's none of her business why you need the leave, so maybe stop telling her. Just request the time which is your legal right under your employment contract.

2. I've heard the Maternity Alliance are very helpful and their website is good. I think you may even find that you don't have to take all child-related leave as annual leave - that would really stuff her! They are www.maternityalliance.org.uk

I am having a lovely day off today . Driving sleet and howling glaes, but I am not at work .

I think when I got back to work tomorrow I might speak to her, rather than Head Honcho about her attitude, and say something like "You don't seem to be very happy of late and I think it is impacting on the work of the section. I know you are worried about your Dad, but is there anything else worrying you that I could perhaps help with?"

The two older men in our team (that she does not directly manage) have made a unilateral decision to move to a vacant office at the other end of the corridor from ours, on the grounds that it will give them more room! Yes, and they will also be about 5 minutes walk further away from her. One of them said to me, after telling her of their move "You can come and join us, if you like, there's plenty of room!!"

lol about those two men! how lucky that there is spare office space for them (and you).

good luck about talking to your boss. When you can see someone at work is blatently unhappy, and taking this out on others, don't you just itch to approach them about it? I know, in the past, I have done. I couldn't put any other plans into action until I had confronted them in a nice way. I hope your boss melts a bit and starts being more reasonable with you.

Are you expecting other scenarios? what happens if your boss says something like 'I know my unhappiness has impacted on work, and thanks for offering to help. The best thing you can do is cancel your holiday and let me tell you when you can take leave as we are snowed under and it's adding to my stress levels...'

Good luck, anyway!

have you spoken yet, tanzie?

Well, I spke to her this morning about how she didn't seem happy and was it all related to her Dad, and was there anything I could do to help? She said it was all to do with her dad (liar) and no.

So I was a bit stuffed really, not a lot I could do. If she had said "Oh, X and Y are being really difficult" I think I could have helped, as although I am more junior than her, I have been in a similar position (managing someone who is older and more experienced than you) and really, treating them like 6 year olds doesn't help!

I have also found out that she has been moaning again to another colleague about "having to do everything because people with children are never there." I get 8 weeks leave a year! If she'd rather I only took 6 and she paid me the money for the two I can never take that is fine by me, but don't moan!