Internal promotion, didn't get the job - but they want all of my ideas?

[Unboundcuriosity]

I interviewed for an internal promotion about three weeks ago. I went for the role as a rank outsider, and as expected, I didn’t get it.

However, part of the interview was to give a pitch on how to improve an aspect of our workflow. Knowing I was at a disadvantage, I really worked hard on my pitch and was really proud of the plan I had come up with and the implementation framework I built around the plan.

I am back today after two weeks' leave. I received an email from the lead interviewer asking me to pass over all the details of my pitch, as they were blown away by the detail, the build work, ingenuity, and the work I had done, and they want to implement the changes I suggested.

Um no?

The person who got the job should be implementing their pitch? Right?

I hate this kind of situation because you risk jeopardising future advancement by not going along with it. I’ve had a similar situation regarding a secondment recently. On paper I was perfect for it but suspect I was jilted for someone with connections. I’ve now been asked to volunteer for tasks on the project with no additional £ or time offered to complete same. I feel I have to comply to prove my worth. Sorry no advice, just sympathy. Perhaps you are in situation where you can seek opportunities elsewhere ❤️

Exactly this is how I would approach it tempting as the other suggestions are. It shows ambition and wishing to support the business/team but also highlights what you are bringing to the table and opens the conversation about their allocating time and/or remuneration to the project. You gain more from the experience when the next opportunity comes along, internal or external.

I think this is not as simple as people are making out, as it’s an internal role. So by lying and saying it’s deleted, which they won’t beleive or refusing or demanding something in return will make you be viewed poorly. And it could be very damaging as the sour grapes will not be edifying.

i would support and offer to help the person. With a view to next time.

i would also consider if the role was really just about the pitch or if they were looking at wider skills. And there are reasons someone else was a better fit

for me you’re ambitious and I’d see this request as positive and I’d work with them on it, I’d offer to support implementation and offer my resources. Because next time it maybe you and you won’t be the rank outsider.

And ask for detailed feedback. It may be that there was one particular area that you need to develop on order to meet all the requirements of promotion role - yes you nailed this aspect but where we're you weaker. Get that info and address it.

Given this is there any benefit to handing over the information to you at all now or in future?

If not - I'd go with I didn't keep the presentation - but to show willing here are the board outlines - and possibly if in future there is scope and time to do this I would be interested in any role doing so.

If there is benefit - I'd hand it over - or most of it and decline any more workload with no defined role.

I'm a tad jaded - one of DH collegues set up a huge internal thing and then when it was a success managment gave it to someone else and they still expected him to run it behind the scenes. He got another much higher up job - his old manager tried to talk him out of taking as a mate . I think person who got it lost interest when lack of budget became apparent and actual work was needed.

I am surprised at some of these responses

The candidate who got the job had access to the same information as you did so I presume nothing too confidential is in there, just information that is available across the company

I'm also assuming you did the work on the presentation outside of your actual job

I think you need to know why you didn't get the job, proper constructive feedback

And on that basis, I would decide how to move forward

But I don't think I'd have a problem saying that I don't want to hand over the work

It's your intellectual property

unless you can use it as leverage for a pay rise or a one off payment?

I would apologise and say you had deleted it. But offer to redo it if they are willing to pay you for your time and effort.

Don't start throwing around terms like 'IP' without checking the terms of your contract very, very carefully.

I think this is not as simple as people are making out, as it’s an internal role. So by lying and saying it’s deleted, which they won’t beleive or refusing or demanding something in return will make you be viewed poorly. And it could be very damaging as the sour grapes will not be edifying.

I agree in that I think you'll look like you're brazenly lying/ overly dramatic if you say you deleted it on hearing you were unsuccessful. In the real world people don't just delete work they've spent ages on and has value.

But I'd not be just handing it over. As pps have said, find a way to incorporate it into your role and your future - you've got value.

It really worries me that there are people like you in the world. Wide open to being exploited.

How you play this will absolutely determine how the next promotion opportunity goes. I get it’s tempting to tell them to fuck off, but as you’ve unfortunately found out the pitch and skills are only a small part of the decision - leadership qualities and experience of heading teams and projects are much more important.

so I’d seriously recommend saying yes, asking for a meeting with the senior person from the panel, and asking to lead the implementation under the person who did get the job. Obviously ensure that give up some of your current workload to make space, ensure that’s explicit. It may mean swallowing your pride, but it will give you a great example to use in the next interview whether inside or outside this company. Make this your long term opportunity not just a chance to get back at them.

@Unboundcuriositywhat an absolute nerve!!!
Easy one to answer -
"Sorry, as I didn't get the job I assumed the pitch wasn't up to scratch so I deleted it".
Nothing they can say to that!

The nerve! (Sorry, no advice, but upset on your behalf!)

Perfect response

OP herself says that she was a “rank outsider”. It sounds like she did a fantastic job at this aspect of the interview due to her knowledge of the company’s processes as an internal candidate, skill and excellent preparation. That’s all something to be proud of but when it came down to it they’ve gone with a (reading between the lines) more experienced person at the level of the new position. Taking all the emotion right out of it, OP has done brilliantly, really shown her value and now has the potential to further raise her profile at the company. The place where she needs to not be taken advantage of is being given the time and recognition to lead on the implementation of her idea and that’s where to start in the discussion. It’s a win win as if it doesn’t lead to internal promotion she can then use it to leave in future with better experience to leverage. Great as it might feel for a second to say “ nope it’s deleted cos you gave someone else the job” - even when that’s what OP expected, is absolutely cutting off nose to spite face and not the smart play here.

if it was external then absolutely no to sharing!

**Edited for many phone autocorrects.

Fucking hell no. Thats a "my computer was on fire and my hard drive has melted" situation.

Was the person who got the job male out of interest?

I've seen that happen far too often. There seems to be in some firms an unconscious belief that a competent woman can design and do the delivery part very well but needs to be directed/overseen by a male leader.

God knows what they think said bloke actually does - IME he's literally just a conduit between the woman really driving the thing and the leadership who chose him over her. Sometimes I think they just don't like having to have to hear women's womanny voices in their leadery meetings as it subconsciously triggers them into looking for reasons she is wrong and then they feel worried things are in a bad place. They find themselves much more comfortable if the exact same info comes from a man, because then they don't look for problems so everything feels good.

Sorry OP, probably not relevant to your situation, just a vent I had to do after too many years in Tech!

My practical advice is to ask for a meeting and propose to work with the new person on the implementation because it's a strategy you proposed to implement rather than a blueprint anyone can follow. Explain there's a lot of thinking behind it about contingencies and triggers that make sense to you because of your experience but aren't deterministic enough to package up and hand over to someone else.

Frame it as concern that if you just handed it over without ongoing engagement and oversight you would be setting the successful candidate up to fail and that's not fair.

@Unboundcuriosity or this which in principle could be a great idea.
BUT there is a real danger with this if they don't agree as they then know you still have the pitch. Which will then backfire on you if you still say no.
Bit of a gamble really.

This is by far the best response so far.

No one will believe that the OP has deleted the work she did. It will make her appear petty and petulant. I genuinely cannot believe that people are recommending that.

As others have said, the OP’s pitch may have been the best but that was only one aspect of the interview and she may not been as impressive as the successful candidate in other areas, especially as she considers herself to have been a “rank outsider”.

Firstly, OP, when did this all happen? Is there any real urgency in replying to their request?

I'd let the dust settle and wait for them to chase you on it then send a version of @NerdyBird's email.

"Oh sorry, I've been so busy I missed this. I'll have to dig out my notes. Quick question though - I am conscious of stepping on toes. Can you explain how implementation would work with the new hire seeing as I was unsuccessful in getting the post?"

This ^^^ is great advice!

I suggest replying saying something along the lines of:

If you want to be implementing my ideas this is clearly involving me stepping up. I would expect my pay and title / career progression to reflect this.

I get what you're saying. I guess I've been around the block long enough to be suspicious that it will pay off tbh and not just help another person get a leg up. It depends on a company's culture but based on the ask, I am not filled with confidence that doing this good turn will result in a different outcome the next time.

I'd do this as well - wait and not rush and consider how this would work for you at very least not dump more work on an already heavy work load.

Well, define “backfire”. I agree there’s a risk she’ll have to hand over the pitch and won’t get any role in implementing. But she’ll still have come across as professional and keen to progress, and is still more likely to be given a future opportunity. In my view the possible outcomes are:

1. Refuse to hand it over. They won’t really believe it’s all deleted including all the automatic backups and drafts. They’ll be pissed of, she’ll look petty, they won’t see her as future leadership material. She’ll feel she’s got revenge which will feel good momentarily. But long term it’s lose : lose.

2).Hand it over, offer to lead the project, get nothing. Gutting, she’ll feel annoyed. But the team will benefit from the implementation and management may look on her positively. She hasn’t actually lost anything herself, and might benefit long term. So neutral : win.
3) Hand it over, offer to lead the project, get a role. Win : win.

personally I’d risk 2 or 3 rather than go with 1.