Would you mind colleagues working irregular hours from home if work is done

[TheLobsterClub]

WFH at odd hours - what would you do?

So for many years I worked very conventional hours and was office-based, but things got a ton more flexible when were moved to WFH during Covid and never really went back. I've always managed by own workload very well, over and above what's expected normally, but have still made sure I've taken time back in terms of popping out to get my hair done, early finishes at times, etc. (I wouldn't do this if I had important meetings obviously).

The last couple of years personally have played havoc with any sort of schedule or routine. Surgical menopause plus struggles with sleeping properly, and right now the horrendous heat means that my sleep and waking cycles are all over the place. So for example I'm literally taking a break from work right now to work.

However, my colleagues are so steadfast in recording the hours they work e.g. they will go and pick grandkids up from school and have it scheduled as a late lunch break at 3.30pm - they keep timesheets of what they've worked to the minute. It's stifling.

I guess my question is would you care what hours/times of day someone worked at as long as the hours were getting done or would you pull them up on for example working at 11pm at night? I hate micromanagement and just want to get on with things. (TBH I wish the NHS allowed working from abroad and I'd quite happily be a digital nomad!)

It's not just doing the hours though, it's hours when everyone else and the workload is there. A lot of companies have core hours for this reason.
I used to keep my hours solidly, and others in the team did late starts, later evening. Because I was there when others weren't I tended to get the workload, so you could be impacting others and not realizing.

Yes this is what I don't understand, why you don't want to record your hours @TheLobsterClub ?

Recording hours means I know I am about a week up on time already (and we are only 3 months into the new financial year) so I won't feel guilty doing a very short day today . It creates transparency and if you work far more than the required hours then it's definitely worth doing!

Depends on the work. My hours should be 8.45-4.30 but sometimes I’ll do some work at 7am for a couple of hours and finish a bit earlier but leave my work phone nearby till 4.30 in case any customers call me. Work know and although it’s not in our contract, they accept that working from home requires flexibility from both ends. Often work book me meetings that require me to leave home at 5am

Just because I choose to fit my hours in alternatively some days doesn’t mean customers know this too and they still require me to be available during my normal hours

The question is:
Is your manager OK with your erratic hours?
If called to prove you've worked X hours, would you be able to?

Has someone said there's a problem?
Why do you feel stifled by how other people record their hours?

Its very normal to record hours. Even more so when theyre not fixed. Then its easy to evidence you've done your hours.

Im not sure why you're not recording when your colleagues are.

With my retired HR hat on I would recommend keeping a record of the time you are working as it not only shows you worked your hours but also that you are having your statutory breaks e.g. 11 hours uninterrupted rest.

As long as you are available for meetings, core hours etc. then crack on and use the flexibility.

So public sector. Worked in public sector all my life and shit, disinterested managers are behind much that is wrong in the public sector. There seems no interest in addressing poor management.

Having said that, I wouldn’t care when you worked ( depending on the role) as long as the work got done on time and to quality.

I would have an issue if your job benefited from partnership working, making connections and building relationships but you never came into the office to do that work

I would log your hours, and log the accurately. If anyone ever questions it, being able to accurately say wha hours you worked on any given day shows that you are managing your hours and ensuring the business doesn’t lose out.

The problem with thinking “I worked 12 hours yesterday and so ca go to hair appointment on Tuesday” is that you may be under or over estimating the amount of time you take back because of the long day.

Recording it takes no time once you’re in the habit. My excel timesheet opens automatically when I log on in the morning and I record start time, lunch break, finish time and deduct any significant breaks (I don’t deduct making a coffee, I do deduct a hair appointment or suddenly deciding to clean the oven).

Takes no time or effort and might save you your job one day. Seems like a no brainer to me!

If you were in my team, this would not be good enough. It’s arrogant and not necessarily the view of your manager.

None of our opinions count really, it's up to you, your line manager, and possibly your team.
The NHS doesn't really allow for true flexi work IME, as many people work 9-5 and expect a timely response within those hours.
You absolutely must start logging your hours properly though. My manager is fastidious about filling in calenders, it evidences the work load, and will hopefully protect us in the event of cost savings etc

Bit of both.

Id expect accurate timesheets, and working what theyre paid for. I would address if their working hours meant they were missing key meetings or stakeholder engagement. Or if I thought it was an issue for their wellbeing.

But an occasion "odd hours" to meet a deadline or catch up on something I would ignore if generally things were balanced, positive and deadlines met

Slightly off topic, but one thing to be aware of is whether you are emailing people at late in the evening. If (like me) you are in a job where people check their emails on their phones out of office hours in case urgent stuff comes in, it’s can be a bit antisocial to send non urgent emails at odd times.

If I check my emails at 9pm and see a work email that includes an action point or tricky issue for me, it’ll disturb my down time, even if on reading it I decide it can wait until the next day.

Surely that’s on you to manage your workload. I’m not going to send non-urgent emails to colleagues only during their regular office hours.

Possibly all depends on context - if round the clock emails aren’t really a stressor (say because people aren’t expected to check their phones outside core hours) then I can see there’s no harm in hitting send.

I try to avoid bothering people outside normal ish working hours if I can, as I’m in a profession riddled with stress and burnout, and where often enough we do receive time sensitive emails on weekends or evening and feel we have to reply. So I feel it’s considerate to keep people’s inboxes quiet outside working hours when things aren’t urgent. It’s so nice to pick up your phone at the weekend and see there are no emails.

Another option is to just write “not urgent” or “for Monday” or whatever in the header, to save a colleague having a sinking feeling and quick panic that their evening is screwed when they receive an email at 8pm on a Friday.

i would expect my colleagues to be around for the core part of the day - from 9.30 until about 4. We have a lot of communication throughout the day and it’s not ok for people to not be around for most of that. Nobody objects to a school run or a gym class on a Friday but I wouldn’t be happy if I couldn’t complete me work because a colleague has decided to work when suits them rather than when people are around

My DD wfh and is always available during the working day but also when they need her to work. Meetings are normally online. The people she works for are usually overseas, rarely in the office, and might want a flight booking at 8pm or whatever, she's never been asked to keep timesheets.

I think either you check your emails and accept you will see all sorts of emails, or you compartmentalise and don't check them

I think maybe it depends on expectations. I do agree with you that it’d be healthier to have no expectation of checking emails outside work hours (but that probably comes with an expectation of being reliably reach-able in core hours). Then I also agree that in that case, it shouldn’t bother anyone if you do decide to email on evenings or weekends - they don’t have to look!

Back to the main topic, as I slightly derailed there, if you’re at home not working, but reachable, I think flexibility is totally fine.

But assuming a collaborative element to work, it’s good if people know when they can get hold of you. If I go off to an appointment in the working day, I tend to put it in my diary (marked private) so people know I’m away and when I’ll be back online. Not just if I’m popping out for 15 mins, but if I have something longer like a medical appointment, longer errand etc.

You sound perfectly reasonable except for this:

"However, my colleagues are so steadfast in recording the hours they work e.g. they will go and pick grandkids up from school and have it scheduled as a late lunch break at 3.30pm - they keep timesheets of what they've worked to the minute. It's stifling."

Keeping timesheets is exactly what they should be doing because if someone challenges they have it there to show that they left early to pick up their grandchild then and made it up here.
I worked with someone who thought timesheets were just being petty. When they got looked at more thoroughly, it was clear why... they weren't doing anything like their expected hours. It's very easy to think "oh I did ages more on Monday. I was there two extra hours, so I can clock off early today", and then think the same the next day etc so that extra two hours was used four times.

Few people care when I work as long as the work gets done. There are a few people
that don’t like to schedule meetings and want to just call and interrupt your focused work at their whim. Those people to expect you to be available whenever they are working, even if outside of normal hours.

i bill in 6 minute increments so every aspect of work is tracked in reality.

See, this doesn't work in an international work force. It's nearly 8pm in the UK. My US colleagues are beavering a way for a good few hours still.
I know if I checked my email there would be something that needs addressing. It can and will wait until Monday, but I know what I'm like - it will bug me.
So, I toggle my work email off my phone at the w/e and make sure there are no work-related Apps (e.g. Slack) on my personal lap top.
No good comes from reading work emails outside of your working hours.

As long as you are delivering your job description, it does not matter imo. People get stuck on this ‘set working hours’ are still in the 90s in their mind. Things have moved on.

I am not sure if I have interpreted your post correctly but it seems to me that your issue is not the unusual hours, it’s that you don’t time record. That is a huge issue and I can’t think of any work place where that would be acceptable.

I work somewhere where we have an agile working policy. I manage a large team and it works incredibly well. Apart from the admin staff who cover traditional office hours, my team work the hours that suit them (and the job). There are no set hours, no timesheets. It’s performance driven rather than hours spent working.

I do ask that they populate their calendars when they’re not around - this time of year there’s lots of school things parents want to attend, but also people block out a couple of hours for their own stuff - hair appointments, personal training, golf etc. it took a bit of getting used to at first, old school staff thought it was a licence to skive. But we’ve been doing it since the pandemic and performance is consistently excellent, sickness absence is almost nil, and job satisfaction is really high.

So no, if I see an email from a staff member was sent at 10pm, it does not raise any concerns at all.

If, as you assert, they don't care, then it's really unclear what the issue is that you are asking about?.has someone said something?