HR advice (or someone that has experience of anything similar)

[Allromanticsmeetthesamefate]

I’m going to try to keep this as unidentifiable as possible while still giving the right context so forgive me if it comes across as clunky.

I am part of a very tight and close team, particularly 4 of us within it. We work for a service which provides lots of different elements of support and though we have all have our own caseload and strengths we are all able to provide each of those parts of support individually to our clients.

We have just been taken over by two big organisations who are going to working collaboratively to give the same service, though they each specialise in very different things, we were assured that they were very excited to start this new venture and originally nothing would really change.

This very quickly became clear that it was not at all be how it would work and the promise of our roles staying the same was down to the fact that they did not understand the service or how we worked

What actually happened was within a few meetings and wooly consultations we were asked our strengths and which organisation we most aligned ourself with and then let us know that either/or would be in touch to say who we would be with.

At this point we still felt ok, we were delivering the service as a package, but as I said up thread our strengths were all different and it was really easy to see who would be best suited where.

It’s probably also worth mentioning that under this transfer our roles, pay, place or work, basically all T&C were and are protected so definitely no panicking at this point.

The inequality, injustice (and whole point of this thread) is that once the split had been made and the team went on to have their next consultations with their new organisations, one offered a very attractive offer to move over and sign with them, an incredible £6ph pay increase, with a detailed job and role description, which keeps them very much in the lane of work that that organisation specialises in from the date of change over, but still keep their original hours, place of work etc.

The other has not offered staff to come over to them, will be sticking to the transfer T&C and has not really answered any questions directly, there has been a lot of “we will all be mucking in for while” “we want to work with you to understand your job description” “we will all need to help each other out”…

I think you get the just.

The wage increasers have now giving their staff their new contracts which they have now signed all the while the other half of their team have been told that all will become much clearer as we start working together and work out what our role is!!!

I’m just so absolutely fuming at it all. It never made clear before we went into the process that parts of our jobs would draw a higher salary and it would definitely have affected my decision, I’m also just feeling that my colleagues that have gone over to a new contract with a clear guide to what are and are not doing where as we have been told that we will all be helping each other out, which has already starting to build a bit of resentment and divide as I’m sorry, why should I be helping out members of my team that are on £6 more an hour and could tune around and say no thank you, that’s not in my contract.

For a bit of context, my role does and will carry on holding a lot of risk.

Im really not sure if this is more of a needed rant or if there is anything at all that can be done as I haven’t yet signed anything but any advice (or maybe just a bit of sympathy) would be greatly appreciated.

Hmm I don't have any advice or expertise here. Is it something where anyone has a union? Or I don't know if ACAS might be able to help? Reddit also has a very active legal advice UK sub if you don't get any answers here.

Hi OP,

I am not a HR specialist but I have been responsible for onboarding, offboarding, recruitment and managed a team of 25 in a recent but previous role. This was in a service sector but likely different to your sector from what I have read. My sector is leisure & tourism.

That said, your post caught my eye as it is clear, you are subject to TUPE. If I am reading correctly, you are now working for a new employer and your contract along with service has transferred over to the new employer.

I have been through this less than a year ago. I was given a 8K a year salary increase when the new owners came in. However, it soon became very clear that the original terms under TUPE began to change and expectations of my new operations manager became very different to my original contract therefore, without any consultation, my working life was altered from what I once knew. It took me a while to realise this & work out my role. Very slowly, the main aspect of my role (General Management) was taken over by their head office and I became a useful tool due to local connections only. Once my local connections had been snaffled from me, I was left with nothing other than seeing my new employers in a hostile manner, ultimately resulting in garden leave and a settlement agreement.

Salary increases were also offered to other team members, many of which were part time with young children. Then I was taken to task for wages bill being too high. It was very clear they wanted me gone. All of this was completed without my knowledge and it was the team who told me when it came to payroll that they had been offered pay increases.

In your situation, I would be asking for a meeting to discuss your contract. While TUPE in theory, has a degree of protection, it is the power you hold right now. If TUPE is breached (as mine was) and your role is different from your contract, there is a strong case for some negotiation under TUPE. It does sound as though aspects of your role have changed. It is worthwhile speaking with ACAS, I did speak with them who advised me (of course it is advice only as they remain impartial) I did seek legal advice from my home contents insurance who guided me on how to approach the situation I found myself in. The result was I emailed the directors with the TUPE breaches, asking for a conversation and within an hour, I was locked out of all my accounts, on Garden Leave for three months and a settlement agreement was negotiated.

I am now now working for an organisation that has recently purchased a business and the team that have transferred over, (lessons learned from my own experiences) have been met with, we have reviewed all their contracts and have consulted with them all to ensure their original contracts are honoured and met. My new employers have actually done things by the book and we met the team prior to the sale as the outgoing employers sent us ahead of the transfer process all the teams details.

Play this with stealth and expertise. Get your advice ahead of any reactive responses and use TUPE for all it's worth. It can be a powerful tool but often watered down with elements of abuse from incoming business owners. My former team were all given new contracts with enhanced pay, an attractive prospect under the terms of TUPE whereby contractual changes can be made for economic reasons. My original contract wasn't superseded. That went in my favour despite the enhancement of my salary. It was that my role changed. Sounds quite similar to your situation.

Thank you for your reply Bringmebread
you are correct in that we are indeed going through a TUPE process, however with the added complication that two very different organisations have gone in together to take over the service.

One that offered an attractive opportunity to switch over to their contract with a significant pay rise, which a few of my colleagues have taken, the other however hasn’t done this and has only offered and supporting their new intakes through the TUPE process, this is also the organisation that has said they need to learn about our roles and that they will stay the same for the time being but may change in the future.

The latter is who I will be under.

It’s also worth reiterating that we still have a few weeks to go until the new organisations take over and as of yet I have signed anything.

Just to add to your post, you don’t have to sign anything if they keep you on your exact current terms, which it sounds like company b is doing.

Im assuming that you know how to do the work at company A even though you are better aligned with company B. If so, I would approach company A directly and begin a conversation about how you feel as though your experience is more aligned with their company. It’s well known that a lot of people hand in notice following company sales, so they may well be open to over-recruiting a bit.

If I've understood this correctly, you were part of a team providing a service. That service has now been transferred from your original employer to company A and company B who will work together to provide the service. Some of the team were TUPEd to company A whilst you and others went to company B. Company A has chosen to give a significant pay rise to those team members who joined them. Company B has not.

I understand your upset and frustration. However, provided you are carrying out the same role and your terms and conditions have not changed, no-one has done anything wrong from a legal perspective. The fact that company A has chosen to give a pay rise to those staff who transferred to it may feel unfair, but it does not give you any claim against company B. Although you were part of the same team and may still be working together, there is no requirement for company B to pay the same as company A. Indeed, it is quite possible that at some point in the future you will get a pay rise but those working for company A won't.

Your options at this point are to see if you can transfer to company A or try to negotiate a better deal with company B, or accept the situation. You may be able to use the pay rise given by company A to argue that you are being paid below the market rate for your job and therefore it would be cheaper for company B to give you a pay rise than to replace you. But there is nothing you have posted that appears to give you any legal claim against company B.

prh47bridge

Almost, it’s company B that has offered a significant pay increase for those choosing go over to their contract, not the TOUPE one.

I guess my frustration is that the whole team was told that their pay, job description would stay the same and at no point key parts of our role would hold more financial value than others.

Had I had that information I would definitely have opted to to go over to company B

Hi there, your situation sounds rather complicated and I think you would benefit from proper legal advice. (I learned from experience that taking legal advice early on saves a lot of money (and stress) down the line).

Are you a member of a union? If yes, contact them ASAP. If not, it might still be worth joining. Unfortunately, no union will take a pre-existing case however they are brilliant for situations like yours (BTW, one does not need to work in a unionised workplace to join a union).

If you are not a union member and you are a property owner, check if you have legal cover on your house insurance.

If none of the above applies and you are not prepared to put up with the situation whilst looking for another job, then consider going to the employment law solicitor. They are not cheap so it needs to be worthwhile. Often a strongly worded letter with a whiff of legal action is enough for the employer to offer a settlement with an agreed reference. However, it is not unheard off for former employers to pass on the message to prospective employers via a grape vine.

ACAS won't help much as they are not allowed to offer legal advice. Letting your employer know you are talking to ACAS might get you a reputation of "a trouble maker".

Unless there is a significant amount of money involved, your best bet might be to grind and bear whilst you are looking for another job. In this case, do the job to the best of your ability with a smile with the aim of a good reference. You never know, your employer might then decide you are such a valuable employee they would offer your better terms to encourage you to stay

I hope it helps

@prh47bridge is an employment lawyer. FWIW I agree with her analysis.

the company offering £6/hour more to sign on to their contracts have decided it’s in their commercial interests to have people on a standard set of terms. There’s always turnover so apply for a job in that team when one comes up. In the meantime you are no worse off.

Does this ultimately boil down to the fact that they got a pay rise and you didn't Op? As pp said it may very well turn out that one day you will get a pay rise and the colleagues for the other company won't.

It sounds quite complicated and they are setting themselves up for unrest and disgruntled employees by paying people differently to do the same job.