Refusing to work notice period

[quakerapple]

A member of my team has handed in her notice today. She is required to work a 4 week notice period.
She has 5 days annual leave left and has requested to take them before she leaves, meaning she wouldnt work the full notice period.
I have refused this as we need her in, we are incredibly shortstaffed.
She will be paid the 6 days annual leave in her final pay.
We are NHS. is this unreasonable ?

Is it 5 days or 6?

It will depend on your company policy regarding annual leave and notice. However, there's nothing to stop her just going off sick if you say no. Personally I would try to accommodate it if you can (or part of it).

YABU she sounds really burned out and you sound like you have no duty of care towards her at all. No wonder she has quit. Just let her have her holiday FFS.

You can't really force her to work. Has she given a reason as to why she doesn't want to work her notice?
If she doesn't work she shouldn't be paid for it unless she's proposing to be sick in that period so I would clarify it is she saying she will not be working in that period so you will understand her final date as being the final working day

Surly hr has a policy for this ? As a pp pointed out theres nothing to stop her calling in sick for her some or all of her notice period if you are being shitty about it

She hasnt escalated that she is burnt out at all. She has infact just had 2 weeks annual leave prior to handing her notice in.
What about the pressure on the rest of the team when she leaves early and we cant recruit before the gap appears.

It's pretty standard to use any left over leave during your notice period

Wanting to take a few days leave during the notice period is totally different to refusing to work the notice period. Short staffing shouldn't be a reason for refusing leave, if it applies like that to everyone then no one will ever be able to use their entitlement.

She is entitled to her leave and any good employee or manager wouldn't make an issue out of someone wanting to use their entitlement.

But again, what about the remaining staff ? We are on our knees !
My god we are in a mess and the public would soon moan if we came to a grinding halt. The NHS is a mess.

Yes you can refuse her holiday request. It is no different to any other holiday request.

But bear in mind if she decides to not turn up, or to become sick for a week there isn't anything you can do about that.

Using your leave to effectively bring forward your last day and potentially have some time off before starting your next job is incredibly standard. You should try to accommodate this request, it's incredibly shitty to refuse it and if you did, there is nothing to stop her being off sick, being paid sick leave, leaving you short staffed and getting her annual leave pay out.

Yes I had considered that.

Interesting. Ok I will speak to senior managers about the fact we are being " shitty " and we may need to rethink
No one can address how I am expected to shoulder the extra work or break it to my remaining staff who will have to cover for weeks though.

I've had a colleague who put in his 2 weeks notice in his holiday & years ago I told my boss take my holiday as my notice because life is just too short for folk like him.
So, what can you do.
If the place was marvellous then she wouldn't be going.
Good luck to her.

You don't have to approve annual leave if you can't accommodate it. Certainly if they've just had 2 weeks holiday that seems reasonable to refuse.
However there's a strong risk they just go off sick anyway but I'd refuse if I were you

Even if you make her work. She wont do anything and you can't make her.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it sucks for the staff left behind and impacted by this behaviour. I have been in your position, and that of a stretched team suddenly down people and it sucks but the work has to be done. See if you can arrange time off in lieu for those who will have to work overtime to cover.

Can you escalate the issue to a higher manager or HR as an example of how the lack of staffing/resourcing is impacting the team and your concern for the health and wellbeing of the rest of the team?

Yes I have and i've contacted Employee Relations.
No doubt we will be instructed to let her have her annual leave.

Thank you.

You sound really hacked off at the person who is leaving. She's not refusing to work her notice period. She has requested to take annual leave during part of her notice period, which is what most people do. Depending on what the employment contract says, you can decline the request but, as others have pointed out, she could just take sick leave or fail to turn up.

You being understaffed is not her problem to solve. Nor should she be blamed that her employer has failed to adequately prepare for staff absence. This is where a manager needs to manage up and say you're understaffed and the risk this presents to patient safety etc.

You either have to deal with losing this colleague and cover her work in 4 weeks, or accept her request and deal with it in 3 weeks, or refuse the request and risk dealing with her absence from tomorrow. In any of these scenarios you have to deal with the extra work, as the chances of you interviewing and recruiting and then training, a new member of staff and them being up to speed in less than four weeks is frankly laughable. (Based on how long the nhs seem to advertise in our trust before the vacancy is taken down).
The and result is you have to deal with losing a colleague, whether that’s sooner or later largely rests on your actions now. They already left once they’ve handed in their notice.
You will just have to be honest with those remaining that you are losing colleague xyz and hope to recruit as soon as possible.
no one here can tell you how to spread the extra workload - we don’t work with you/in the department.

You need to refer the issue of the additional workload upwards

Do the NHS approve of their managers asking for advice about their employees on Mumsnet?

If you aren’t allowed to recruit then I do feel for you but if it’s poor workforce planning and you’re the manager…. well it’s your responsibility isn’t it?

What about it?

The NHS needs to look after its staff better if they want to stop situations like this. Refusing to work her notice period is an indicator that things are not great for your team. There is nothing you can do to stop her going off sick, as frustrating as it is for the remaining staff members, that is not her problem.

While its not your fault as an individual, it is the NHS as an organisation who decided the appropriate notice period for that role is 4 weeks. You not having enough time to recruit isnt the employees problem.

Im surprised your trust doesnt have an actual policy specifying that ideally staff should use up annual leave after resigning and should only be paid it as a last resort, ive worked in several public sector organisations and that's always been the way it works.

As pps have said, you can deny her the leave but you cant stop her going off sick - then you'll have to pay her AND still be one person down. So personally id try and negotiate with her.

I don't think you're being "shitty". Asking for another week's leave, immediately, after returning from two week's leave, when you are in a team that is already overwhelmed is the shitty behaviour, if you ask me. As another poster said, the resignation is neither here nor there - normal leave policies should apply.