Flexible working approved "temporarily"??

[Goscat]

Hello,

I've had a flexible working request approved for when I return from mat leave in 2months (was full time, requested 3 days). My reasoning was due to childcare costs and availability (I have to pay for two children after 3days/week and I earn less than the cost of two places).

However, my work have said it will be on a see how it goes basis, meaning they could put an end to it at any point. This would essentially force me to resign as I wouldn't be able to get back the 2days nursery spaces for two children (waitlists are 18mo in our area).

Can they do this? I would have thought a working pattern agreement is a contractual change and can't just be cancelled on a whim of the company?

In our company a trial of 3-6 months flexible working is common. It doesn’t usually get rejected after the trial as long as everything is working out.

Same here, we have a 3 and 6 month review written into our flexible working.
What did the letter of confirmation actually say? Did it say it could be reveiwed at any point?

@Namechange13101 @Furlane

Yes, same position. Review at 3+6 months.

Problem is if they backtrack at either of those points I'd essentially be forced to resign as there's not a hope in hell of me getting two days space for childcare at such short notice.

Were you working part time whilst you had your first one, or would the first one still have their full time hours allocated at the nursery? You might be able to put the second one on a full time waiting list as I have found there is a lot of moving about at those ages. Would the CMS from their father cover the extra cost of nursery as going part time essentially moves the childcare costs to you rather than nursery (and puts you out of pocket as you won’t get the extra pension contributions and may hinder you work progression - he would be benefitting on your expense!).

Could you negotiate the notice period, so that if the trial doesn’t work for either of you, you would be able to resign with the least possible notice, or take parental leave to give you time to sort out alternative childcare arrangements. Either way, I think their father should step up on the childcare front as you seem to be the only person penalised here.

I would say be careful what you wish for. If you make it contractual the company would have no need to accommodate any increase in hours/days that you might want in the future. You could also be seen as an "easy" redundancy if costs need cutting.

I'm not a single parent, he just earns a hell of a lot more than me, so if he dropped hours we'd lose money whereas if I drop hours we gain money 🤣.

No, I've been full time since DS was born 4 years ago! it's actually my first born is the 'issue' we live in Scotland so he has 2.5days/week funded and the other 2.5 is where we have to pay, meaning we pay for both kids on those days hence the high cost.

They can review and change their stance because your childcare is not their problem. They employed you (originally) in a full time position. They have agreed to trial part time but if they feel business needs are not being met they can revoke it. It is hard being a working parent but the business needs will always outweigh childcare needs of an employee unfortunately. I hope it works out for you.

Are you really going to lose that much? It will be school soon and you might be glad of the extra money from full time work. Once you take into consideration matching pension contributions and potential promotions, it might not be the loss you think it is. Also, god forbid, if something happens to your relationship (you going part time is not a financial help to you but a massive one for your husband so it makes sense to split the short term minor loss)!

You could always look for other work that accommodates your needs whilst you do the trial, but I’d be wary of dropping hours too much as it’s not long until school. As a previous person said, the trial could also be a benefit to you.

Yes, they can agree to trial it. The alternative is that they could just say no.

This at the end of the day they priority is the business. If your change of circumstances do not work for the business they cannot be expected to keep you on regardless. They are giving you the chance to prove yourself, they could have said an outright no but didn't.

Gosh there’s some nasty and bitter replies in the past couple of months. Mumsnet seems to absolutely hate part timers, can only assume it’s jealousy.

OP, it’s very normal to have a trial period and usually nothing to worry about providing all goes well and it doesn’t negatively impact the business. No need to “prove yourself” 🙄 and long as you can evidence your job is still being done well and not negatively impacting the wider team or company. After 6 months you should be able to get it permanently agreed.

Note, there needs to be a genuine business reason to decline or revoke your request, especially if you have a protected characteristic (you do -sex/childcare), so contrary to PP the business can’t “just say no” because they don’t like it or they could find themselves in trouble at a tribunal.

Unfortunately for you, there are quite a lot of people who use WFH as a reason to have no childcare on those days. So have children around during working hours, with the attendant drop in available focus on the job. Companies therefore need to protect against this by having a trial period where both parties can demonstrate that the arrangement is working for everyone. As long as you don’t view your WFH days as parenting days, then you’ll be fine.

If they thought it wouldn't work they would have said no straight away, chances are it will be fine.

Not sure where WFH comes into it, that hasn't even been mentioned by the OP.

Yes it's usually in a trial period to start with. Often up to a year. This is both to make sure it works for your employer ( ie you don't take the piss) and - more importantly - it works for you. Often with flexible working you will find that after a few months you want to adjust it ( more or less hours or different days etc). Making it temporary makes changing it less of a faff.

Thank you, I'm choosing to ignore those specific replies. Highly unhelpful 🙄

Yes I mean by and large they're a very helpful company, and my boss is very understanding. It's nerve wracking having the "threat" hanging over my head, but my particular job role is quite sought after even in the current climate so in theory I could find a job quite easily to bridge a gap if it came to it!

I'm not asking to work from home, I'm asking to work 3 days a week.

I would NEVER work with my kids at home it's be a bloody nightmare 🤣

A three or six month trial period is normal for this wherever I’ve worked. Almost always it’s passed without problem but occasionally it raises an issue which mean it doesn’t continue. The only times I’ve known that happen is where the person didn’t work the hours they’d agreed to or where objectives weren’t being achieved.

It’s standard policy where I work and a chance for both sides to adjust if there’s something that might work better. Once it’s in the contract you can’t revert easily so best to make sure you are both content.

They can’t just say no though. They have to give you one of the 6 permitted reasons and they have to outline exactly how the decline fits in to that reason.

They can offer a trial to see if it will work, but at the end of the trial they will have to either prove that it doesn’t or approve it.

You are able to have a fixed term flexi if you both agree - I say both because I have just been there with my employer where they tried to impose that on me. Bit of back and forth including ACAS and here I am with my permanent flexi and nobody can touch that. Stand your ground OP.

Well, you're right, they have to give one of the 6 reasons, but it's easy enough for an employer to justify a refusal in line with those reasons if that's what they want to do.

It seems that the employer is doing the reasonable and sensible thing, in that they are agreeing to trial it to see if it works.

Yes I'd view it as protection on all sides. You demonstrate during the period that it works just fine and then you are rock solid to keep going at that level. They then can see how well it works and save some money as they aren't paying FT wage.
Don't view this as a threat. Unless there's really.good evidence it's not working eg you man a reception desk and there's customers walking away 2 days a week because there's no receptionist... you are going to be in a good place after this trial period. Presumably you are confident the job can get done?