Being forced to attend out of work events

[Rhetorical]

The company I have worked for have introduced quarterly team meetings. These are offsite in a hotel for the afternoon, often going on until gone 6, then dinner, drinks and an evening activity. Hotel stay overnight then a breakfast meeting and further stuff in the morning before returning to the office in the afternoon.
Im annoyed this, it encroaches on my time out of work, I don’t like sleeping away as I don’t sleep very well and it knackers me for days. Are these things common and also enforceable? I’m resentful as I have to find extended childcare and it’s MY time. I don’t want to do stuff in the evening for work! Where do I stand with this? Managers act like they’re doing you a favour and giving a nice night out with food and drinks but it’s in MY time!

This is really simple, just don't do it. You need to be calm and warm and don't make a fuss about it, no over explaining about dogs or whatever.

Just respond to the invite - look forward to attending the quarterly review, just to let you know I'm unable to stay after the meeting so I won't require a room booking.

How far away from home is it? Could you attend the meetings but drive home for the evening and go back in the morning? Not everyone enjoys a night away from home, or has responsibilities that they work around. We used to call this "compulsory fun" in one of my jobs! If you dont want to do the "fun stuff", then dont.

The trick is to convey the attitude of "oh. I absolutely would have loved to have been there, it sounds so wonderful, but I'm afraid it's simply impossible". Rather than "do I have to, I don't want to".

My DH has often been expected to "schmooze" potential clients by taking them out for dinner, drinks etc. The clients that want this are invariably in their 40s and 50s and divorced, and expect DH to stay out till the early hours. More sexist bullshit.

You're perfectly placed, then, to push back. And I would, in your position. In fact, I did. Sorry, can't make it, family obligations, smile and shrug.

I always avoided these kind of corporate events, for the same reasons that you give. The principle of the thing - I give you my working hours, you give me a salary, my free time is my own, so hands off!

We did this once a year which I think is fine. People were given plenty of notice and expected to attend. Four times a year is a lot. I wonder what the company really think they are getting for that investment. Either way, I’d book annual leave or something, maybe some other kind of leave depending on your policies. Unless the activities etc are directly linked to your job role, it sounds like something for the younger ones with few responsibilities and I’d try to quietly dip out!

Is the hotel for the meeting far away? Can you say you'll attend the meeting but need to shoot at 5.30 (or whatever your usual finish time) for other commitments? I manage a team and would struggle to turn that down (that's if we did anything similar which, thank god, we don't).

When I was still working, there was a particular demographic that cheered on this sort of corporate timetheft. Younger, either childfree or looking for a reason to have to leave the kids for a night, regarded it as a freebie night out and a chance to schmooze the next management level up.

My local team got moved to a similar Global role without consultation as they said role hadn’t changed just line management. I think they did this as struggled to find the skillsets they needed externally so shuffled in-house.

The Global role has up to 40% travel in its job description which I insisted was removed from mine even though there was no travel foreseen at that time.

Then a HUGE global project landed on us and I am now the most experienced in the team and still refuse to travel saying I never applied for this job you put me here. I know if I start travelling it becomes expected. Drives them nuts. Keep wanting me to lead the global team but I tell them I can’t do that effectively without travelling so I am not interested (plus don’t want the hassle). Same as you mid 50s, doing my job (lots of hours) and no interest in travel for work.

I would probably use childcare issues as an excuse each time I didn’t want to go.

On the comments about the organiser being young - this is the complete opposite of what I see where I work. Anyone under the age of 30 point blank refuses to do anything beyond their normal hours, even if it's a nice, fully paid meal out. They consider it to be work regardless of the activity (and I admire their boundaries!). Those in their 30s go along with it because they feel they have to. The organisers are usually the older ones in the team.

It can be pretty hard to organise wrap around overnight care for your children 4 times a year. And very expensive.

OP, can you not just go to HR and say, much as you would love to participate, you cannot find overnight childcare?

Maybe go once a year and act like it's the best fun ever, just to be a team player, then wriggle out of the rest. It's such shit.

what does your contract say?
is it a pi planning event by any chance?
attending the work event, yes of course. attending after work event - depends what's covered in contract

Well as I say, that's not how my role works.

But, I'm early 40s, Director level, definitely interested in career progression, paid really well and my bonus is up to 65% of my salary so it's to my advantage. My industry has loads of events, conferences, long lunches etc.

If I were mid 50s, not interested in progression and just trying to get through my weekly hours then I'm sure I'd feel differently.

I do think quarterly is a lot and I don't think they should be presenting this as a great favour to you, it's work. So in your position I'd push back on some of them. Maybe do half? I do think refusing to go full stop is going to cause you problems. It's costing people in the business money and effort to organise this and they won't take it well if they have people trying to get out of going.

People saying “just say no” are giving really poor advice. Not attending these things will definitely mark you out as Not a Team Player. This matters at the next headcount review. And job hunting in your 50s is hard!

not saying it’s right, but this is how it works.

If you are at Director level you should know that is how every role works.

You should be able to work out the hourly rate of a renumeration package.

Your basic covers you turning up and working within your role.
If you travel and stay over that is work time
If you do events out of hours that is work time
If you dine to shine that is work time

You should be able to calculate the pay rate of each KIP as it translates into a % of bonus pay.

If 40% of your contract is partly contingent on extra hour /social obligations you should be able to work out a cost/benefit.

It has nothing to do with ambition.
You are Oceangrey Ltd selling* *time as well as skill to your employer.

Rhetorical Ltds employer is spending money on the event on the basis that they have a right to take the employees time for free.

Not taking it well shows they were never properly pricing the cost of the 4 event.

Agreed.
which is why employers should be very carfull in recognising meetings/ business/ training etc as part of the role and social event team building scheduled out of hours set some employees up to fail

@AnSolas I agree 100%

It’s quite normal to have to travel and for most people it’s a treat. Most contracts have some catch all “other things” clause and I have a U.K. travel one despite never travelling to this point

If it's commutable I would simply advise that due to personal commitments you will need to leave at the end of the working day. Back in the morning for the post breakfast meeting. I highly doubt it will be challenged.

can you tell them you will attend the offsite events but not the evening activities and overnight?

If they say it will impact your career progression, say something noncommittal like "oh that's a shame" but don't budge. Would that work or is it too far away?

tbh it is 4 times a year. These events while they can be full of corporate bullshit, often lead to better teamwork. If only because everyone bonds over how shit everything is.

another thing you could do is just push off early for X number of days in the month following the event? and if asked say it is TOIL for the evening activities?

(also to pp saying about ordering from roomservice in general you can't do that as the hotel will give you a separate bill)

Yeah, ok.

Well all I can say is if I'd taken that attitude throughout my career, I wouldn't have got to Director level and I wouldn't be paid as I am, or got the results I have.

I'm not saying there isn't a general view to be taken on whether the amount of time your job takes is worth the salary you are paid, but if you're paid an annual rather than an hourly salary then you're paid for results, rather than time.

If it's something that's been added since you joined, and is nowhere in your contract, then you can simply say that you have commitments in non-work time that requires you do be at home. Dog/partner/kids - all are valid. They can't make you.

Its not an Attitude.
Its understanding valuations

This "but if you're paid an annual rather than an hourly salary then you're paid for results, rather than time" is amusing

You would not have got to your role without your husband.

Absolutely this