Civil service advice on a work issue

[cucumber4745]

I’m at a point in my SEO role where the work itself is genuinely enjoyable, and moving to G7 feels like a natural next step. I’m capable, confident in the substance, and motivated by the challenge.

What I’m finding much harder — and increasingly unsustainable — are the ways of working with some G7s.

I owe an apology to two HEOs who previously raised concerns about this team. I didn’t fully believe it until I experienced it myself.

The issue is not knowledge or intelligence — there is plenty of that. It’s the lack of basic team behaviours:

minimal engagement
no attendance at meetings or 1:1s
no visibility of plans that directly affect my work
last-minute changes with no context or prior discussion
responsibility being passed around until it lands on me/lower grades

I stopped chasing updates and simply confirmed that timelines and plans were unchanged. I had everything planned properly around training and annual leave. Then, one hour before close of play, I received an email imposing an unrealistic deadline. Effectively one day to do five days’ work — with no discussion, no warning, and no context.

I pushed back. That triggered circular meetings, further shortening timelines, and eventually working until midnight to fix an issue I hadn’t created. I didn’t sleep, logged in early, and was then told that working out of hours “isn’t expected” while the responsibility was still left with me.

What was most frustrating was the narrative that followed: that this was about me not being agile, or not taking enough breaks. In reality, the upstream steer I work closely with was already four weeks late. With visibility, I could have adapted easily.

I’m foreign and direct, and when I’m burned out my frustration can show in emails. My G6 challenged me on that which was fair. I also flagged the underlying issues, because these ways of working are not sustainable long-term.

Occasional out-of-hours working happens — and that’s okay. But when it’s avoidable and driven by poor planning and lack of accountability, flexi does not compensate for the mental health impact of lost sleep and constant stress.

Right now, my options feel like:

stay quiet and burn myself into the ground working out of hours
push back and still burn out because nothing changes and it still leads to above
get signed off, knowing I’ll return to a backlog and reputational damage

None of those feel like real choices.

What I do know is this: while I am often doing G7-level work, I don’t have the authority, pay, or credit that comes with it and that imbalance is at the heart of the problem.

I don’t know whether this is a team issue, a wider Civil Service pattern, or something I need to handle differently.

But I do know that I dread Mondays, I’m emotionally exhausted, and the only meetings I struggle with are those involving that individual…

Have you applied for any G7 roles yet? How long have you been an SEO for?

I wouldnt want to say straight out it is a team issue but in my long journey to SEO I have had amazing, empowering and knowledgeable G7/G6s.

In recent years unfortunately this is not the case with a few terrible G7s.

This is definitely not a wider civil service pattern in my experience (13ys, currently a G6). Sounds like not a very nice team to work in. A few things to consider -

1. are you in the union? If not, consider joining.
2. are you applying for G7 roles? You could even look for SEO level transfers to another Dept and aim to go to G7 from there.
3. do you have a mentor? I'd find one outside your directorate who you can discuss how to approach these things with.
4. if you dont want a mentor, does your Dept run any schemes like mental health first aiders / behaviour champions? You could get in touch with someone in those teams as a soft way of discussing what to do next.

I came in on the wrong grade as I changed careers. So I have plenty if work experience. I joined as an HEO and progressed to SEO in a year so been in that just over 12 months. That said, I did my old LM G7s work - and had a breakdown as I had no support or pay to show for it as HEO. I was 1 point short for get job, she got demoted and left the department- my new LM is lovely and says I am ready for 7.. as does my 6.. I do apply but the bar on behaviours/statements keeps changing. I am also foreign and the accent doesn’t help. I feel like I am being taken advantage of because they know I am capable. But when I have no support or the authority or pay it stresses me out.

I am trying to manage burnout for a long time and this doesn’t help.

I don’t know how to detach emotionally from my work is another issue

I think @SecretCSreally offered good advice, especially about a mentor.

Sometimes a change of department provides a new perspective as well as proving more scope for broadening out behaviour examples.

It is really annoying to miss out on a role by 1 point and at the moment all roles being advertised have tens of applications so the competition is hard.

I think if work is impacting your MH it is also really important to use the EAP services.

The worst thing is to stay somewhere you do not feel appreciated or recognised.

I am in a union.
I am actually on a TP SEO so can’t transfer. My HEO role was supposed to be regraded. Too much paperwork so they did it as a TP which never went permanent due to freezes

I apply for 7s but struggling with the behaviours. 4s and 5s is not enough.

I did have a mentor but he got so busy that they didn’t have the time. I am using EAP as well.

It is the constant push-pull I struggle with. I am in analysis and constantly having to defend your approach is exhausting. Depending on projects some timelines are just not bendy. Analysis takes as long as it takes I cannot make the laptop go faster.

I just feel trapped when this happens. And I know it does as it has happened before. But there is so much I can do to manage upwards.

I need to detach I just don’t know how without feeling like I am going to get sacked for missing deadlines because of wrong steers.

Thank you - all of this on my mind. At the same time because I am burned out I actually have decision paralysis and dread a move.

my burnout is not caused by the work, but the ways of working contribute. And as silly as it sounds because of the state I am in, a single day staying out of hours affects my life so much that it takes a week to catch up!

I am wondering if CS is for me at all, but with TTC I just can’t afford the risk of changing employers. So I am trying to figure out a way to navigate and deal with difficult 7s like that as I will have to for the foreseeable future.

Do you find the G6 problematic too? Do you think you could speak to them about working practices? If you do try not to make it personal about the G7s. Difficult to do if they are the problem I know. If this isn't a viable approach I suspect the solution is to move.

Honestly I relate to so much you are saying (as someone who has put G7 on hold and looking for a level transfer).

TP is always a tricky place to be in (it has a time limit) so I would say look for substantive SEO role on promotion but in another area.

The Civil Service is a great place to work and each department has its own culture. Obviously promotions do happen within each area but as an HEO you will be competing with SEOs seeking promotion and G7s seeking a level transfer.

Only you know if this work situation is bearable but do remember that even applying and interviewing for roles has an element of development so it is not time wasted.

Build in your development time and protect it, in turn that will provide you with some space from your actual job.

The 6 is awesome. We get on great and he loves me. He is aware as he picks up on my frustration and checks in. But as you say it is hard to not make it personal about the 7. One I find it hard to express myself properly and selectively when talking and not in writing and two I don’t want to put him in a difficult position as really the 7 is not bad at their job at all. We just don’t match/communicate well. While I have always known this since joining the team 2 years ago, it became more obvious when I directly work with them.

I currently split my time in two teams - two different policy areas. 50% in my main team with my LM G7. I mostly do large Project Management on that end and support the lower grades/wider team with their projects when they need another pair of eyes.

And then 50% time with difficult G7’s team. I like them as a person a lot but I find the hands off and poor planning, constant disagreeing with no alternative solution irritating to the core.

I do project management there as well but also hands on analysis and task management of two analysts. The 7 is in the role 15 years so I know they are good and the to go person for many. But gosh that last minute crap is not agility.

I know they are organised chaos - always deliver but very last minute and often with of hours. It is great it works for them but it doesn’t work for me and I am finding that person inconsiderate.

A good 7 in my eyes would have acknowledged it is them issue/preference and either rectify or pick up the slack. Not pass it down. If I get another vague email at 6.30pm on a Friday asking for something on a Monday I may end up throwing my laptop in a wall (I am being dramatic 😂)

It is personality/ways of working clash. Which I think is common. But I struggle to navigate because I just cannot communicate with that person. They always misunderstand what I am saying. And it is not my English- If catch ups do happen which they often don’t, I am being talked at in circles for 30min.

The project will be done in 4 months so I won’t have to work with them closely unless something else comes up. I am looking to move/promotion 💯 but I am sure that will likely take more than 4 months.

My notice is technically 2 if moving/leaving the department.

Realistically all I can do is change how I approach it. I just don’t know what to change so I switch off from it. Throwing my laptop sounds tempting….

I am looking despite it being a pay cut in most departments. It is supposed to become a permanent role but will see about that.

Annoyingly I am on 3 reserve lists for SEO. I had to refuse 2 interviews due to location and departments refusing home - working. My location does not help. I am not in London and that limits options. I am also considering moving with my partner and his house is in rather isolated location that means 5-7 hour daily commute to the nearest office. But that is an issue for another day.

Are you a badged analyst? If not, have you applied for a badging board? On the current TP, how long have you been acting up and what are the plans to advertise the role? You should not be on TP for long periods, the role should be advertised on fair and open competition.

I am badged of course. The TP is for two years due to recruitment freezes. They should be able to advertise at the end of the year, but that is not really the point of my frustration/difficulty.

It adds stress due to insecurity of the job basically, but it is the lack of comms from that 7 that is stressing me at the moment and really adding to my burnout.

I hear you! So much good advice here. I’m wondering if you could see this as an opportunity to gather evidence for your job apps/interviews? Try out different approaches to deliver at pace, make improvements etc. Also, I find that giving realistic considered options to respond to a problem helps eg I can get this job done in 5 days or in 2 if additional Seos can be brought on board/other conditions are true, which approach do you prefer LM?

If you’re getting 4-5’s then i’d say you need some wider experience at HEO (see you’re on TP) / SEO first. Maybe look for any gaps in experience. Civil service is a big place, and whilst some climb the ladder fast, most are a few years in a particular grade. As you’re finding, you need a bit more experience. I’m a G7 and my dept isn’t like you describe, but some are poorly led. I’d get a substantive SEO first, and get that wider experience for G7 applications.

5-7hrs commute? I’d reconsider that. As a G7 I go in every day as I want to be visible (operational team). I would not consider anything over an hour each way personally. You need to consider something more local. Civil service, like many private companies will only require more office attendance not less.

This thread does rather confirm all the civil service stereotypes.

Absolutely do not commit to a 5-7hr daily commute if you are TTC - it will put way too much stress on you. Do not underestimate how exhausting early pregnancy can be.

Oh I agree - I wouldn’t commit to that even if I wasn’t trying to. It is just not worth it financially/time wise even for a G7 let alone lower. I would be better off in the local chip shop 😅

You are probably making life difficult for your lovely G6 as she will have little ability to change the behaviour of the G7.
When you listed your options you didn’t include just doing what you could within your standard working hours and documenting clearly why the ridiculous new deadline was unachievable. As a project HO you want to prove yourself and that’s great but you’ve indicated this has already caused you to have one breakdown and you’re on the verge of another.
Overall your managers may prefer that you sometimes fail to meet deadlines but don’t give them a massive HR headache as you see yourself as G7 material and are trying too hard to manage upwards.
Good luck with the TTC. Agree that if you want to progress you need to move near the office. The competition for SO/G7 roles is massive at the moment even in 60% roles in London.

Thanks everyone - I continue to discuss with my LM strategies to manage the stress from that. She agrees it would stress her too. We do have some progress. I agree it confirms the CS stereotypes.

I won’t commit to a long commute. I generally wouldn’t apply to roles that require more than 40% attendance all the time. I am in policy facing role, so my role can be done fully remotely. I agree it limits my options, but full-time office work is not for me in general. Especially, if I do end up pregnant. I have no family/friends in the country. So maintaining such arrangements is a no.

I appreciate the thought that I may not have enough experience as HEO. I absolutely do. I entered on the wrong grade, and have line managed, project managed prior to CS etc. Skills are skills the process is different.

Even SEO grade is boring in my profession and department as I did this stuff in my 20s as an undergrad.

I just need to be coached with the behaviours. The language is sooo unnatural and every department scores the same thing different. Recruitment is also changing at the moment to move away from competencies at least in my department as they realised people talk a good game, but can’t do the job and others are the opposite

Agree the behaviours based interviewing is exhausting. Believe it or not it’s better than it used to be. At least we can use strengths and technical ability now so it’s less easy to blag it.
Don’t forget that the higher up you go the more your people skills matter. You can be the world’s most brilliant and efficient analyst but need to show you can negotiate tricky HR situations and support others.
I often feel like an apologist for the CS’s problems but if you want to get ahead you need to work with the culture.

I don’t want to think what it was like. With AI now they will be forced to change the process. My 6 was saying he interviewed few people who scored 6s in the applications and 2s in interviews so they wouldn’t hire anyone! Had to do the process again.

Yes I agree, I am generally good with that it is my accent that makes me sound angry. Had to manage a lot of stakeholders which helps. The only thing in my Dept is that under 7s don’t line manage. I am lucky I can get some experience with mentoring and task managing lower grades but it is not common.

Annoyingly, most of my issues come from what you say - 7s poor interpersonal skills. Ive had a few in two years who never line managed before, and were horrible with development.

My current issue is also stemming from that. While I totally appreciate that last minute stress/flex working may work for them when that way of working affects your team it should be reconsidered or said person should take the responsibility and fill the gaps for anything they delayed.

If decision x is communicated to them on a Monday morning, it will not reach my inbox/ears until 5-6pm on a Thursday/Friday. Their calendar is almost empty - such a waste of time..

Interesting thread. Currently CS but finding promotions or other opportunities a bit of a dead end.

Love my job though so will stay where I am but it’s strange to see G7 roles being discussed as we don’t have any in my dept.

I feel you. The main issue in my Department is that all G7s go to Fast Streamers and do not get advertised. There is a “restructure” every October as they pass their boards and roles get created, blocking the rest of the staff. That is now worse because of redeployment and redundancies.

I am staying put for similar reasons and as my 6 advised me, currently a lot of roles are insecure due to cuts/redeployment across the CS. Whereas my current role and team are secure for the next few years.

It is just the frustration of it all.

I’m from an operational part of the CS with a majority EO workforce so LM experience starts with HOs and SOs. Usually teams of 4-10. It’s a massively testing and complex part of the job so it’s always eye opening when we come across G6 and 7s who appear to have been able to rise quickly despite having zero/minimal people management experience.
We have had some fast trackers who come and go to get their operational experience box ticked and the calibre is very variable. It’s irritating to see the incompetent ones gain senior roles knowing they couldn’t cope with the level of work we expect from our HOs.
I get the frustration. But it’s awful out there now for progression and having a secure role is a blessing.