FLOWERY!!! Come vent with me...

[Pinkjenny]

As you know, am doing an interim role, which is v. dull. I've been here since Feb, and have just looked at my payslip for this week, it doesn't look like I'm going to accrue enough hours to go on holiday, and will have to take one week unpaid. Two, two (!) part time HR roles have come up at my level and salary bracket in 7 months.

I am sick to death of reading in PT and PM about bloody flexible working, working mothers putting themselves at a disadvantage, blah, blah, blah.

Why can't businesses and HR professionals open their minds to the possibility of recruiting part timers? Surely we should be leading the way and innovating, and tapping into what is apparently such a huge source of excellent candidates that can't find an appropriate role.

And btw, remember the job I 'didn't fit the mould' for, it's been readvertised! That person that did 'fit the mould' must have jumped already!

Hi mate, sorry was out with DS, then tea, bath and bed.

Quite agree with you. Clearly it's much much easier to achieve flexible or part time working of some description if you are already there fulltime. Very annoying for people like you, but understandable to a degree.

Flexible working will always involve some adjustment for all concerned, whether it's reducing hours, compressing hours, working from home, changing work times or whatever. There might be work practices that need changing, tasks to be reassigned, IT and other home working arrangements to be made, and an impact on colleagues. Many companies will understandably be reluctant to consider making those adjustments for someone they don't even know, who might not even be any good and who will be on a learning curve for the first 6 months and won't be able to 'smooth' the adjustment by knowing the job inside out.

Absorbing all that disruption is a hurdle to be got over but when you're also getting over the hurdle of a new team member coming in, getting to know everyone, learning about the organisation, finding their feet, it's going to be tougher. And if it doesn't work out, the thought of the potential disruption and expense of possibly getting rid of the person and re-recruiting and re-training would be very off-putting particularly for smaller organisations.

Much less of an excuse for bigger organisations with a bit more 'give', obviously.

Of course that's all very short term thinking. What's needed are culture changes within organisations, a change of thinking in terms of how we work and how we recruit, so that all these issues are actually a lot less disruptive, and more of a 'norm'. And yes, HR professionals should be leading from the front, taking the hit with the disruption initially, proving to the rest of the organisation that it can work, establishing good practice and demonstrating bottom-line benefits.

What's needed are influential, persuasive and credible senior HR professionals with good business heads and who have the trust of senior management. Unfortunately I am busy doing my own thing, so am unable to save the day on this occasion.

Well, all that pondering is all very well, but not much practical help is it really? I do sympathise, but I don't know what else to suggest. I assume we've already had the conversation about public sector as an option? Talking to recruitment consultants and getting them to explore the possibility of F/T vacancies they have on their books on a P/T basis? I'm running out of suggestions!

Sorry to butt in but you are so right! I wanted to sympathise and share my current experience so you know you are not alone.

I was lucky to go back PT into a slightly different role, specialising where as I had run the HR department as a Generalist previously. I found it a struggle at first but love it now (barring a Manager or two ).

I applied for another role a while back. Same hours but it was a step back towards generalist and more money. I was rejected as I "did not fit the culture". Basically as I currently work in Manufacture they thought I could not fit into a Technology Company. I spent several years Consulting for some very well known City based Technology firms but they obviously did not look at my previous, just my current.

The one downside I have found is the influence I used to command is seriously lacking now. I am on a PR mission atm but it is a real struggle. Mainly the PT issue but also because I have to leave in order to pick up DD. I still work at home in the evenings and at weekends to make sure I am hitting targets but the lack of a Physical presence is the biggest drawback. I suspect there is a culture of presenteeism creeping in that I can not (and would not) be a part of.

Check your email Flowery

Sorry PJ

I work in a senior HR role within the public sector. After maternity leave I went back full-time, but compressed my hours into 4 days. Whilst that met the needs of the organisation, I found it didn't quite give me the balance I needed at home.

I'm now working 21 hours flexibly. I usually do 2 days in the office and work the other hours as and when throughout the week. If I need to go in to see a client, I go in. Alternatively, I use the remaining hours to complete work, draft project plans, that sort of thing. I'm all teched up to work from home and have a blackberry. I tend to do a bit of work every day and so far, I am getting the balance I want.

I love working for the public sector. Granted, the financial rewards aren't anything to shout about but there are other benefits. Sounds cheesy but I do find it incredibly rewarding working for Social Services. The projects I am currently working on are exciting and will have a direct impact on the lives of the most vulnerable in our society. There are very few stereotypical local government bods walking around, and the few that remain are rather entertaining.

There are many people working flexibly in the public sector, or at least there are in my organisation. Our Chief Executive drops his children off at school every morning and our MD, without fail, leaves at 5pm to have dinner with his children. Both are flexible users of IT and crack on with stuff after they have done what they want to do family-wise. Both are incredibly dynamic, motivated and ambitious people and I think, good role models.

I say all this because there is generally a view that public sector HR is the dead end of a career. I am trying to convince you that it can be exciting and challenging!

There seem to be quite a few of us HR people knocking around. Perhaps we should form a non-existent mumsnet clique to support each other?

Flowery, twas just being nosey - but failed! - your website seems to be down??
Thought you'd want to know!

It is good to hear about those in the Public Sector doing what we would all like to do. In Theory my job is like yours ll but in reality I am finding that politically I have to be in the office more and more. I need to spin it, but I am struggling atm on how I do that. My direct boss is not the problem, it is the rest of the Management team and the board.

llareggub I was thinking the exact same thing last night and came on to suggest a non-clique support group to allow water-cooler-type whinges we don't get the opportunity for in the office! Good thinking Batman. Shall we start a thread to rally the troops?

I am guilty of a bit of public sector bashing, I will admit. But I definitely don't see it as the dead end of an HR career. It's just not for me.

I think realistically if you want to be moving back and forth, it can be difficult. Private sector employers tend to need a lot of convincing that public sector HR people will successfully move sector, but I think it probably depends on what area of the private sector it is. In some cases it's an unnecessary and unfair perception, in others a genuine concern. I speak from experience of pushing to give public sector candidates an opportunity and seeing them struggle with the transition. I don't regret the decision at all but I can see why people would be reluctant to take the chance. Similarly I think public sector organisations can be a bit wary of taking on candidates from private sector, although I have no experience of that so am happy to be corrected.

I know plenty of HR people who work in both sectors, and I know public sector HR would drive me potty, which is why I have avoided it. But it obviously depends on the person and the benefits are definitely not to be sniffed at, the pay isn't as bad as the general perception in my view, and the opportunities for flexible working as llarreggub says are definitely huge compared to elsewhere.

dilbertina - thanks for that. It was all up and beautiful last weekend then thanks to a long-running saga with my web hosting company, who have decided they don't support Internet Explorer for crying out loud , it is down again, to be up again later today all being well. I will announce it!

Morning ladies - am definitely up for the support group.

Flowery, I totally agree with you about flexible working, and I have to admit, before I had dd, saw any flexible working request as a huge PITA. But now I am in that situation myself, I am so frustrated by the lack of opportunity. My boss, (who is a child-hater ) said to me this week during a discussion on this very subject, 'well you decided to have her'. Oh yes, very constructive advice there.

I think another thing that has changed my view is that my current interim role was actually advertised as full time, and the only reason my new boss agreed to my part time suggestion, is that I am interim, and therefore she has a get-out clause with me. However, I am proving that this role can be done efficiently and effectively on a part time basis, and the girl whose mat leave I am covering is coming back part time. I understand that there is a possibility that I will need to continue to take interim contracts in order to stay part time, and that is a cross I will just have to bear.

Also the very fact that I am looking for part time stigmatises me as a working mother, in that the old school thinking kicks in, 'oh she'll take loads of time off with sick children', or 'she'll just keep getting pregnant'.

Callmeovercautious - agree with you as well! I know that I am not viewed with the same credibility as my predecessor as I am part time. I think some HR departments are reluctant to advertise or suggest part time employees as they think in some way it diminishes the importance of the role, kind of, 'well if that can be done in four days it's clearly not that business-critical a position'. Stuff and nonsense. I also need to leave at a reasonable hour to pick up dd, but TBH I wouldn't want to work in a 'long hours' culture, it goes against my working ethos .

llaregub - I would be more than happy to consider Public Sector, but again, no opportunities seem to exist. I haven't seen any, anyway! Having spent all of my career in the Private Sector, I am reliably informed by Public Sector friends that I would find it extremely difficult to enter the Public Sector at this level with no previous experience of it.

Oh, what a whinging minnie I am!

Pinkjenny, it might be a matter of finding the right public sector organisation. Certainly within mine public sector experience is by no means essential. What we do find is that it is difficult to recruit the calibre of senior HR people that we need. Our posts are usually advertised as full-time but flexible working is frequently negotiated. A recent new entrant to local government has just negotiated a part-time HR Manager post.

I didn't mean to turn this into a public v private sector debate at all. I absolutely agree that it is difficult to cross from public to private but I have seen it work successfully the other way.

Flowery, to you want to start the thread? I have quite a bit to do over the next couple of days so won't be about much.

callmeovercautious, I have just re-read your post and saw the bit about selling it to the board.

I had to spin it by promising faithfully to be absolutely flexible and agreed to work additional days as and when business demands it. Whilst I work set days, they are more for convenience and I do flex them around to fit in with projects. Some clients have no idea that I work part-time and I'm quite happy to keep it that way by blackberrying on my days off. I suspect that not all of my clients would be happy if they knew I wasn't there full-time.

Of course, the public sector ethos does help. My organisation is there to support vulnerable people and their carers and subsequently are very supportive to employees with dependents of their own.

Llareggub - I have started asking agencies to send me details of any roles where all other factors are in place, but the role is full time, in the hope that I can negotiate once I am in front of them.

Its also a question of location with me. I live in Liverpool and so my preferred location span is Preston to Warrington. However, most of the roles tend to be in Manchester. DH works in Manchester, and logistically, we just cannot manage if I work there as well, because of nursery commitments.

Flowery has started the thread.

llaregub - I do the same - with no Blackberry, mobile and laptop for me. I have just totted up last weeks hours and I did 10 hours overtime (I went in Sunday) and with the bits I do in the evening and when DD is napping etc it all really adds up. That takes me to 38 hours. A FT contract is 37.5. BTW - I took 1.5 days off last week as DD was sick and still managed those hours.

I need a big hooter to sound in the office every time I log onto the server or take a call

Will see you all on the new thread.