I don’t think managing people is for me…

[rabbitsarelush]

18 months ago I was promoted from within my team to manage said team of 8. Let’s just say there is a diverse range of characters from ones who are happy to backstab, plodders with no go in them, another one who is the strangest person I have ever met in every way. They all snipe and watch one another to make sure one doesn’t have a single benefit or advantage over the other. One has mental health problems and the whole team feel depends on how they have arrived in the morning. They do get the work done but it’s usually with plenty of griping about workload, what others in the team are doing and our customers.

The team was like this when I joined it 10 years ago and back then I wondered if this was the right team for me as I’d come from a smaller, nicer team where everyone looked after one another. I stuck it out as the work is far more interesting and my salary has increased much faster - in fact I’m on almost double the salary I was on 10 years ago now.
It’s quite frankly exhausting and as a mid 50’s person I am at the stage in my life where I have no time for shit. I had hopes that as I’d worked in the team and knew people I could make it a nicer team. I ironed out a lot of the little issues that we all used to have, provided lots of training opportunities, put a few simple things in place to make the job easier and tried to show I would be a kind and supportive manager as the previous manager was absolutely awful and was no support at all. Some of them seem to have forgotten that they are there to do a job that they are being paid to do. Seems the longer people work somewhere the more entitled they become.

Went in yesterday and about 3 out of the team are using their slack time filling in development plans - even this has become a competitive thing between them as they all ‘want out’. Trouble is there’s nowhere for them to go so then that causes more annoyance as there are one or two that think that as they’ve been there so long they should be handed new roles on a plate.

I don’t have support from my manager much, he just expects me to get on with it, my team know he’s a pushover and they have no respect for him as he’s hardly ever here and again, he was a promoted person up from their team so some members actually remember and think of him as a sideways colleague rather than a manager. They think the same of me hence little real respect. I have one or two (who were there longer than me) who will make decisions over my head or butt in and try directing / organising things as I’m standing in front of them.

I think the real issue is promotion from within a team, it never works and to be honest I’ve had enough of it all, mixture of perimenopause probably and having had enough of working altogether and a difficult mix of characters to manage.

I just need to move on and leave them get on with it but my salary is great and I genuinely enjoy the content of the job. Any tips from experienced managers? Or sometimes has it gone too far to be salvaged?

Managing people is difficult. Ask to go on a course. My advise is you need to know what outcomes you want , then listen to to that staff with comments such as
"I totally understand your feelings , what solutions can you think of ? How will that happen with XYZ?

Ask them for solutions to problems, then offer your thoughts on how it can be achieved.
Give deadlines. "Great ideas, so can you get that done by tomorrow 11am?

Everytime they snipe at each other , day "we don't have that kind of behavior in this office "
And repeat if it continues , have a meeting with them and say if this continues we will have to go down the disciplinary route as it is bullying in the workplace

Sounds horrible. I hated being a manager and changed jobs eventually. Middle managers, which is what I think you are, have a tough job. Especially when you get no support from above.

It’s often the only way to progress though. Can you stick it out then go for further promotion?

Being promoted into managing your team is really tricky. How big is your company? Do you have an HR department that can offer coaching, or potentially a sideways move to manage another team? Is there any possibility of setting up a career framework within the team so that there are varying grades and progression pathways outside management?

There isn’t anywhere for me to progress to without significant travel which is something I definitely don’t want. I think possibly a sideways move into another team may be the answer. I’d be interested to know if all managing teams is like this. A relative of mine once said ‘don’t manage people - most are generally arseholes’ and I’m thinking they were right.

What are you doing to build the team culture you want to see? I have team standards on how we work and act, team meetings where this is reinforced and people are responsible for owning their own work and collaborating, clear targets and kpis that they agree to, weekly 1:1s to discuss individual priorities and progress and a 'what good look likes' framework where I set out the expectations I have for the role. I'm very clear I don't mind how they do their work as long as it fits with the team standards and delivers.

Think about how you want to lead your team? Do you want to manage or lead? How involved do you want to be? Set up processes and approaches that suit your style and hold them accountable for meeting your standards not the other way around

Large company so there is HR support but it’s a strange place, almost incestuous if it can be described that way. A typical ‘we are family’ place so the lines are so blurred everywhere. I’ve had what I thought were private chats with HR before and I’m sure they go straight to my manager. Nothing is private, one of those places where there is too much talk and gossip. Hard to describe. It’s all a bit toxic.

It sounds like there's bigger issues than managing people. It's about culture do either you give in to it, challenge it or find a way to work within it that works better for you. Or leave, but I assume there's reasons you haven't done that as it's the obvious answer

I’ve tried to lead by example but when I have a manager above me that my team have no respect for, he breaks company rules about not WFH, leaves early most days for the school run it hard. All they see is people above them doing what they like. I’m stuck in the middle.

Would you be able to share what you mean by a framework of ‘what good looks like’ as an example please? I have absolutely no manager experience so it’s ideas like this that I have no idea where to start with. 1:1’s are a good idea, I did start them in the early days but they turned into a session where people complained they were bored in the role and what was I going to do about it. They all want opportunities and progression but in reality there’s no jobs for people to progress into. I feel like I’m drowning with everyone’s demands.

can you get a second in command?

so when you do the 1 to 1s, pass it back to them to come up with solutions?

Could you run a "2026 Reset" meeting? make sure everyone comes into the office for this, no dialling in remotely, everyone has to make an effort to be in the room together.

As the leader of the team, you should start by setting the direction, what the team needs to achieve, so they can set their objectives based on those goals. Get people to think about their personal strengths and how they will contribute to team success.

Run a Reverse Culture topic, which is a fun twist on culture.

• start by asking the team to define culture to get everyone on the same page (culture being the norms and values, behaviours and attitudes that makes the team work well together)
• for the reverse culture, get the team to write on post it notes and stick them in a white board, all the behaviours that will derail the team and stop them meeting their objectives. You'll very likely find that the things they identify are the behaviours they are currently exhibiting. No need to point out the obvious to them, they'll get the message, they are calling themselves out for their own bad behaviours and will have to change that in 2026!

make sure the outputs from the meeting are captured and shared, and have a topic in monthly team meetings to see if progress is being made. Celebrate good behaviours, show appreciation. Get the team to nominate anyone who is positive, does the right thing, has helped or supported them etc, to highlight during team meetings, to reinforce what is expected.

it sounds like no expectations have every been set which means people are going off the rails as they know there are no consequences.

ETA I have absolutely no manager experience so it’s ideas like this that I have no idea where to start with.

on what basis were you promoted to being the manager if you have no management experience? Genuine question, your organisation is letting you and team down badly by not equipping you with the skills you need to lead that team.

If I chose one to be my second in command then there’d be grizzling from the others I left out. I really is like managing a bunch of children. I like the idea of getting them to tell me what they want. I’m happy to allow time for people to shadow others, attend training etc, pick up interesting projects but I’ve found that you give them the opportunity and then they’re moaning that they’ve been given something else to do. Just cannot win. Perhaps they need a stern reminder that actually they are paid to come and carry out the role they were recruited for.

I love this. Thank you so much!

is there any L&D budget available for you to do a management or leadership course? It sounds like something you could really benefit from to learn some proper management tools and processes. If it’s a large company there should be some resources available for this so I would definitely ask.

Most fundamentally it sounds like your team needs a shake up and for you to start being a bit tougher - setting expectations on behaviour and how people show up, and then managing them to that standard. Doing a team charter might be something that is helpful, get them to agree to a standard of behaviour that you/they want to uphold. If the company has a set of values that can also be a useful framework to measure people against.

The key thing though is that you need to actively manage examples of behaviour that don’t align. You need regular 121s, development discussions and performance reviews, where you set them objectives and then discuss progress against them.

If they claim to want development and progression that’s actually a useful thing for you - you can set them a development plan and that needs to include things like role modelling leadership behaviours. It doesn’t matter if there’s no direct progression you can give them within your team, you can develop them towards being your successor, or to step into a more senior role elsewhere in the company, or to another role somewhere else if there’s no opportunity at the point they’re ready for a step up. Development doesn’t have to be about offering progression within the current company.

Don’t let 121s (or development sessions) become a whinging session. Use a coaching technique, if they complain about something, ask them how they’re going to tackle that challenge or what they could do to resolve the situation themselves. If there are specific things they want your support with that’s ok but it’s not your job just to solve all their problems for them.

Finally, if after all of this you still have people with a bad attitude who aren’t prepared to work with you in a positive and productive manner, remember that you don’t have to keep them in the team! Sometimes it can do wonders for a team dynamic to root out one or two bad apples - either because they’re particularly influential in the team, or because it shocks everyone else into realising that there are consequences for behaviour. That’s a tough part of management but a necessary one sometimes.

In terms of what good looks like I set out my expectations for the quality and standard of delivery for that role at that level. It's about 6 points of one line each per role so senior ones it might be more about accountability and responsibility and more junior ones more about supporting the team and keeping time to be responsive in the diary. I also set out their core roles and responsibilities in plain English ad the ones in our job descriptions are set for us and there's far too many.

I also have standards on how we work as a team eg. 'We use evidence and data to guide our decisions' or 'We take ownership of our own work'. In team meetings people are expected to share short updates on their achievements, challenges, where support and decisions are needed and any intelligence gathered that week before a collaborative exercise where we work on something that impacts across the team.

The things I've described are agreed with the team and open to change but not dilution. I'm happy to tweak the wording or emphasis if there's a reason why but lower the standard? Nope.

I manage as little as possible and focus on leadership and delivery and letting the world know my team members are wonderful. I want to them to want to shine. If I'm bothered about timesheets or breaks or work from home it's because it's easier to deal with than actually addressing the quality of delivery but it's not the right thing to spend time worrying about. If they were delivering well I wouldn't care if they took an extra 5 minutes on lunch break. It's a signal something else is wrong if I'm worried about that stuff.

It sounds like they’re all stagnating and resentful. Their primary goal is to “get out” so I would manage them accordingly: Regular catch ups focused on supporting them to identify vacancies and apply for them. Support them with their applications and interviews. Praise people who are doing well. Identify what is holding them back, their development needs, and find work that can give them stretch and experience.

Often people can’t actually be bothered putting in the work required to develop and progress but when pushed they’ll realise that and become grateful / accepting of their current role and stop griping so much.

Sounds a bit like my team although I am probably the back stabling one because all i see are a bunch of really unmotivated people doing the bare minimum and a a manager that does nothing about it. I asked my manager the other day why she does nothing about people who come to work and do nothing and do they not realize that they actually get paid to do a job. She couldn't answer me just said things will change but they never do. So frustrating !

Thank you all so much, so many useful points here. I’ll take my time to read through and look to use some of the suggestions to improve how the team are led.

I’m not yet 50 - but know what you mean. I will never directly manage. I refuse to. I will mentor and that’s it. I give my line manager an easy ride and I don’t bitch and complain. Just get on with my job and ignore the noise.

If I was you I would just move on. Life at this stage is too short. I am hoping to retire at 60. I don’t think I could honestly deal with office politics beyond that and I’m struggling to now 😆

I wouldn’t say managing people is always like this. I think a few thinks can influence it being more or less like this, including:

• wider company culture
• your manager & support they give you
• whether you’ve hired the team, or inherited them

If it’s been this way since you joined, it suggests the culture is misaligned with your values. You can influence that if you get the ability to hire people in, but ultimately it’s not likely in your position you’ll be able to make material change (unless you put them all on PIPs and get rid of the rubbish ones - but back to the unsupportive manager point).

To be honest, the team has been shitty from the outset. Why are you surprised they are still shitty?

Personally I hate managing people in their 40s to 60s because of the attitude you mention - negative, toxic and entitled and think they deserve promotions on a silver platter whilst moaning constantly and being unwelcoming to others. There is that weird competitive energy between them and each other, and them and their manager. You can see why they are an advanced age at a junior position at work, bare in mind that many people in their 40-60s have managed to make it to c-suite. The people that are left in the dust at that age bracket, are undesirable for a reason, hence why they’ve never progressed. But they’ll find a way to spin their lack of progression into everyone else’s fault!

However, I would say that I left for a better job and my new team is much better. I think I needed my experience with a shit team so I can now go into new teams with 110% confidence. When I managed a shit similar team, I was on £40k. Less than 2 years later I’m on £70k whereas they are still in their same position, unpromoted, being a nuisance to my successor.

I done a brief stint in managing people in my
old job and I hated it. So much whining, complaining and bitching but zero effort to try and improve things.

I think it’s unfair to say that people in the 40-60 age range who have not made it to c suite are ‘undesirable’ for a reason. Not everyone wants to make it to this level and many have a lot more to offer in other roles with experience. Certainly in the OPs case they had not demonstrated the attitude or ability to progress despite the expectation they should. It is up to those managing them to outline what is required to achieve the desired outcome and why they are not successful.

Hi @rabbitsarelush sorry, haven’t read the full thread but there are free online courses in team leading, they give you the basics and you get a certificate too… might give you some ideas
E.g. I googled this and came up with a raft of courses but your local college should be able to help you too!
freecoursesinengland.co.uk/principles-of-team-leading/

@rabbitsarelush if there is nowhere to go then you can turn it around

grear advice here , if you can look for courses on team empowerment and self directing teams (agile model)

in essence:

• don’t tell them, ask them, involve them to any decision/change
• run a ways of working session on key areas (how you gonna work together, comms, escalation, updates on progress etc). Can’t stress how important it is for you to facilitate by supporting “their ideas” even if you hate them
• show empathy ! Thats the key to winning them. let them rant , there is a reason for them, you don’t need to agree but you can listen

you can turn this around, see yourself as a leader in a crap environment, not a manager