To winder if it's fine fir someone on a junior management level to have a bit of fun with more junior colleagues?

[Chefpig]

The reason I ask is my manager is formal. He's told me before that I shouldn't be friendly with those who are my junior and to cut the banter out. The banter is me just talking and the occasional laughter with them. I believe I am well liked amongst colleagues and respected. I work very hard, often logging on out of hours.

Since he said that I've kept myself to myself, however just before Christmas, all the work was done, phones weren't ringing and there was a skeleton staff. All the managers were off and most other staff were. My colleagues and I had a bit of fun and sang a song. Now I'm afraid I'm going to get pulled for it.

If you are a manager, what would your view be?

Yes I am when it comes to work. Very anxious.

Do you think it's wise to remain in a management role?

Would you lose much money if you didn't?

I hate being in a leadership position. I can't be myself and always feel as if I'm going to slip up. I don't know if there'd even ever be am opportunity to step down from my level of management in my current organisation.

Literally a few minutes of singing and goodwill to all men (and women).

And

Some colleagues were talking about it today.

Doesn't totally add up. If it was a few minutes of singing a Christmas carol or two, then I can't see it being talked about in the office after Christmas - not worth mentioning really.
So, be honest to yourself - was it really a few minutes singing unaltered words?

Yes it absolutely was. I think they were talking about it because it was funny us trying to sing.

You sound immature, as if you want your cake and eat it, re being a manager and staying "mates" at work, If you want to be taken seriously in your career, you should try not to let your guard down. Keep that for a social event down the pub or in a social club etc, not in the office.

If you join in with the singalongs in the office, people who see you, as a manager, behaving like that will see it as tacit endorsement of banter, jokey-ness etc. so when it comes time to pull rank as any manager or supervisor has to do from time to time, you won't be taken seriously.

I can't imagine anything like that happening in the office where I work, because it trivialise the work environment, it depends on your industry sector and culture though,

from what you've said, no harm done but I'd try to change your behaviour from now on if I were you, you shouldn't be in any work situation where you are worried the boss will pull you up for your behaviour.

People you work with are not your mates. You don't need them to like you.

100%

Thank you for your wise words. Do you think I could get in the shit for this?

Oh my actual days!

How on earth do we know??

Just forget about it because it doesn't matter.

Why on earth anyone would still be talking about a stupid line or two of a song being sung, days later, is anyone's guess but I'm sure everyone's over it now 🤦‍♀️

Your singing mates at work are not going to pay your bills if you lose your job, and you also won't see them for dust should you end up with any disciplinary or performance management action in future from your "banter" - or your general ability or attitude.

Remember that and act accordingly - including consideration of whether the very obvious disdain you have for your manager and his style may also be showing when you are at work.

The one off instance of having a bit of a sing song doesn't sound like a problem. But generally, if a manager has went out of their way to tell someone to pack something in, it's because it's an actual issue. Otherwise they do what the rest of us do and judge silently from a distance.

It was asked up thread but I didn't catch your answer - where do you sit in comparison to your direct colleagues, the other junior managers - are they equally as full of fun and banter? Were any of them in the singsong?

It's very hard being a manager OP. I sacked it off after 15 years because whilst I was able to be stoic and professional, I wanted to go back to being one of the team which you just can't really be when you're the leader

I sit in an office with people of mixed levels of seniority, including managers above me and a director.

I was the most senior person in that day.

Managers on the same level as me do also join in the fun and are friendly and chatty with the rest of the team but only when certain managers aren't in.

Sometimes I just get carried away with the lively conversation (never inappropriate, just sometimes lots of laughter between colleagues). People I line manage are never around when this happens because of days they work and when certain other managers aren't in is when it gets more lively.

I'm just not made for such a responsible job. I can't keep my mouth shut or seem to stop myself joining in conversations that seem fun. I'm not management material. I feel so very down about this. I know I'm seriously letting myself down and embarrassing myself. I bet all the managers think I'm unprofessional and a joke.

And then when the realisation hits that I took it too far, that is when the horrible anxiety and worry starts. I'm tired of it.

I'm just not made for such a responsible job. I can't keep my mouth shut or seem to stop myself joining in conversations that seem fun. I'm not management material. I feel so very down about this. I know I'm seriously letting myself down and embarrassing myself. I bet all the managers think I'm unprofessional and a joke.

so knowing what you know, what do you intend to do about it? There is no point giving yourself a hard time about your behaviour on here, if you aren't willing to put in place some professional corrective action to address the problem.

if you're worried that your manager will "give you a hard time about it", then take that thought seriously and in the future if people start larking around in the office, either ignore them, or make yourself busy and actually demonstrate to your manager that you're responding to their concerns that you're becoming a ring leader and the source of disruption. If it gets to the point where you're dismissed you'll have a hell of a job trying to persuade a new employer to take you on as you won't get a positive reference.

in short, do something about your behaviour before it becomes a crisis.

Since my manager had that conversation with me a while back I have ignored all attempts at conversation or 'banter' in the office and got on with my job. It was a moment of madness.

My work ethic or standard of work has never been questioned. I go above and beyond and my results speak for themselves. It's just I get easily distracted and I guess like to have a laugh. I've been trying so hard not to though, I feel I have let myself down totally.

I think you're being very hard on yourself. If things are indeed as you see them, then there's no shame in preferring to be one of the pack instead of the leader of it.

I have been reflecting on this thread. I report directly to the CEO of my company and I am quite able to "have a laugh" or informal chit chat with my colleagues at all grades in the office (including with him and other C-suite) at appropriate times and in appropriate ways - i.e. not when we're crashing a deadline or something focused is going on.

Yet what you seem to be saying is that you must be permanently stony-faced and silent all the time (to be a manager) OR able to chat and have light-hearted moments (one of the team). This is not how normal offices work, so something is missing from this story.

Occam's razor suggests the fact your manager had to reprimand you was for the way in which you were singing and larking about. Most likely you were noticed as one of the specific people taking it too far and disturbing or annoying other people.

My advice would be to lay low, wait for it all to blow over and show-by-doing your boss you can take the warning. And consider getting some honest feedback from close family and friends about whether you come across as overly rowdy.

Finally, drop the melodrama about not being cut out for a manager role because you "like a laugh", it isn't helpful or constructive, when it's probably just learning to tone it down and remembering there is a time and place.

how depressing, as are several of the other comments basically encouraging the OP to listen to her manager and essentially act like a robot at work. Literally nothing she has said sounds the slightest bit inappropriate at all, let alone "trivialises the work environment," ffs. Where do you work, Funsuckers HQ? I've worked for the police, in the heritage sector and in medical care, and all have used humour and friendship to help deal with the work - we're talking people who literally save lives or witness the end of them, hardly "trivial" or "immature"

The boss literally thinks asking someone about their weekend is too friendly!
That's not normal.

Lots of people spend more time with their colleagues than with their families during the week, how sad if the slightest bit of interpersonal engagement, and god forbid having an occasional laugh, could be seen as inappropriate.

Personally I've always had much more respect for managers who take the time to get to know and care about their staff than the ones who only engage with you on a work level and would happily replace you with Chat GPT if it was doable.

The one exception would be "banter" - as a manager I would say not to engage in anything that could be potentially even mildly offensive with junior colleagues even with the best of intentions, but singing a few bars of a song on the last working day before christmas is so far removed from inappropriate I genuinely think it's sad you're even questioning it.

I think it’s fine. As long as everyone is working well. If they are not it can be a bit tricky

The one exception would be "banter" - as a manager I would say not to engage in anything that could be potentially even mildly offensive with junior colleagues even with the best of intentions, but singing a few bars of a song on the last working day before christmas is so far removed from inappropriate I genuinely think it's sad you're even questioning it.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but you have proved a point that you give people an inch and they take a mile. What starts out as a little singsong (which quite frankly makes me absolutely cringe), then extends to "banter" which is loathsome. People are not always very good at where to draw the line.

I find the easiest way to draw the line is not to endorse behaviour that is fine down the pub. Make it really clear what is and is not acceptable at work so people aren't confused about how they should behave. I've always kept things professional and funnily enough people really like working for me. The people who like to be bezzie mates with everyone are nightmare manager because people don't know where they stand.

i did caveat my other post by saying that the culture very often depends. on the industry sector.

Thank you so much to you and others who have said I wasn't being inappropriate. My managers main concern was that I was too friendly with staff below my level. He's very stern and has shut down my conversations previously about mundane things like food. I'm not overly friendly with any of my colleagues and only go out with one outside of work. Someone who is the same level as I am.

I never engage in banter as it can be offensive and get out of hand and I call out any inappropriate banter which isn't often but everyone should feel safe in work.

I'm sorry a singsong made you cringe.

You're wrong. My manager wasn't even there.

Did you actually read that comment? In its entirety?