Rules not being applied to everyone re. Flexible working

[notimpressedatm]

I work for a company with thousands of employees. During Covid times many people took advantage of remote working by relocating far away from the office, in some cases to the other end of the country.

Over time our employer has introduced a policy to be in 2 days a week, but they haven’t taken any action against those who live too far away to reasonably come in. It’s just been accepted that they won’t be coming in. No one’s contract changed to say remote work, everyone still has the office as their contractual base.

Because they have made these allowances for some to never come in, managers have largely felt they can’t enforce the 2 days a week too harshly , but most people have been in 2 days most weeks if not one day.

But I feel quite resentful about it - the area we live in (to be commuting distance to office) is one of the most expensive areas to live in the country, while others have upped sticks to live in much more affordable areas. I have to commute (costing money and time) while they never have to. I hate working in the office and suffer when I do so (headaches, stress etc) and have to have prescribed medication to deal with this. If working from office is so important for the job, why do others keep their job while not having to come in.

If I wanted to go down that route, would I (and others) have a case for there being unfairness here? If I refuse to go in so regularly, could they take disciplinary action against me while not doing it against others? It’s not fair some people can get away with never going in while we have to on a regular bases. Most of the people I work with are people who live in other countries (but still in UK) as they have moved while I’m talking to them from the office.

And no, I can’t just up sticks and move myself.

Worry about yourself, rather it being fair for everyone. If going into the office is exacerbating your health issues, speak to your manager about the potential for reasonable adjustments to accommodate this.

No one is getting away with anything, they moved and they are now too far away. If they do their job and it's within the bounds of company policy then that is all there is to it. You're jealous and seeking to make trouble for other people aren't you? Change your circumstances other than be bitter towards others.

I feel uncomfortable talking about my personal health stuff and don’t see why I should divulge this when others have different expectations. My manager is a real blabbermouth and not sympathetic so I worry about telling her too much.

No, I just want to have the same treatment as them and not be expected to go in just because I live within a reasonable commutable distance. I can do my job completely remotely too and if I’d moved away I could do it just like them and they couldn’t make me come in. But the employer says we need to come in for our job but then conveniently lets those other people get away with not complying. I don’t think it’s fair I could be potentially disciplined if I don’t in, as is there really grounds to do that if others don’t have to? I’m asking where I stand legally, can employers really enforce different rules like this just based on where we live?

and what they’re doing is not company policy, that’s the point. Some are being held to it while others are not.

Why does going into the office make you ill though? That’s surely a separate issue as the act of turning up in person should not cause physical or mental symptoms!

Talk to your employer to understand the full situation - get evidence in writing - and then ask ACAS whether it is legal or not.

We have a similar problem where I work, but it’s people who can’t come in ad their dog can’t be left or it’s ’too far’ when it’s about an hour and they knew where the office was when they applied.

Manager never really pushes it so unless he does we can’t do anything. It is unfair though.

I agree with PP.

How do you benefit from trying to push that others come in?

If you refuse and they go down the conduct route, assuming you have a hybrid policy which states you come in, then you would likely say your health is the mitigating factor.

You're angry at your employer for something you haven’t given them a chance to support with.

You could go guns blazing to acas and tribunal but on what claim? And it would be unlikely to make it a better working experience.

Just speak to your manager calmly about the issue, it sound easily resolved. If you genuinely can’t discuss with your manager, then discuss with the manager above them.

You can submit a flexible working request at any point up to twice a year. Perhaps do that then there’s process around it.

What would be illegal?!?

You don’t know, quite rightly, what agreement is made with other employees who live further away. They possibly have approved flexible working requests.

If you submit and are declined unfairly then you have a point but you haven’t raised it so…

My point is less about pushing others to come in, but questioning how they can enforce it on the rest of us while not doing it across the board. Ideally I would prefer they don’t enforce anyone to come in unless their job requires it or they want to.

Flexible working does not have to be fair. Employers deal with applications in the order they receive them. They can agree the first one but not second or subsequent applications.

I think you should count your blessings and stop worrying about anybody else.

My company (a govt department - is yours?) has this exact situation. It's not black and white. I applied for my job during COVID when it was advertised as national but based in an office, attendance based on business need. I live 2.5 hours away and don't go in twice a week. If I did, I'd have to work part time.
I do feel for those who live just under the 'threshold' which for us is one hour away. But like a pp said, you can ask for a reasonable adjustment? I don't know of anyone at my company who had a disciplinary or anything over attendance.

I’m asking if it would be illegal to enforce rules differently to employees without good reason (like a disability etc). For example, could they sack me or discipline me because I want to do my job mainly from home (which I’ve done for years) as their policy says we all have to be on site for a certain period of time, while allowing others to never go in at all?

But what if two people have the exact same job and circumstances, could they accept one and reject the other?

Well, how DO they enforce it? If other don’t come in, then you don’t need to either. Start
coming in less.

It sounds like your employer is trying to recognise the varying needs of their employees and attempting to be as flexible as possible. I can understand that it might seem unfair, but unless you've submitted a flexible working request (as they may have done) and given them an opportunity to address that request I don't think it's productive to compare yourself to them.

What exactly is it about your workplace that makes you so ill you're on medication and how can they address that? You might suggest changes to the physical environment, for example, or suggest a period of time or wfh to allow your symptoms to improve. Did you have those symptoms before covid? Were they addressed then? Other than observing some people wfh permanently and simply wanting the same, what exactly has changed?

But how do you know what individual agreements have been made if there are thousands of employees? I work for a very large company and people have all sorts of working patterns and agreed places of work, although we do the same job.

Lots of reasons: harsh lighting, noise, air conditioning etc

Yes, they can, as long as it’s not discriminatory.

I’m worried about how they would enforce it , getting a disciplinary or sacked. I don’t know where I stand. I don’t think they do flexible working requests, only reasonable adjustments if you have a disability etc, as they see the 2 days as flexible working already.

It's not a choice https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working/applying-for-flexible-working

I guess your options are:

-Stay the same and keep moaning
-Start cutting back and only go in once a week/once a fortnight or not at all. This is contrary to your contract though and could have issues if a new manager came in. You have no idea what contractual changes/agreements are in place for those that moved away
-Speak to HR about your health issues and ask for reasonable adjustments. They might refer you to occupational health. I can't recall, but don't think a manager needs to see/review the full medical report. Ensure any changes such as only going in once a week or not at all are documented!

I live in the US but my large company went through similar changes because of COVID. I was hired remotely. They changed the policy to 2 days in office for those who live within 50 miles of the office. Those who live outside remained remote no matter what arrangements they were under before.

Thanks, yes these are some of the reasons. And stress related too, I find hot desking hard as it’s pot luck on whether I’ll get a desk, if not I have to perch on a table with just a laptop. The drive in is always stressful too.

I have some minor health issues which would sound like I’m making excuses if I voice them. I feel like maybe I should just leave and find a fully remote job or one that requires just monthly or fortnightly days in person.

If you could prove you are being discriminated against based on one of the protected characteristics then yes but that doesn’t sound like the case. You don’t know what agreements are in place with other colleagues either.

You haven’t discussed it with them, which is what ACAS or any solicitor would advise you to do. If you took it further with an ET the question would also be what steps you took.

You have a statutory right to make a flexible working request. Ask your employer for the policy, they’ll have one if they have thousands of employees.

It would be much better to talk to them than to stop turning up in the office.

They would be expected to make reasonable adjustments for your health, but they can only do that if they know.