Changes to flexible working request - advice please!

[HangryDuck]

Since returning to work after COVID, I have been working from the office 2 days per week and wfh 3 days per week. My office days I've worked 9am - 4.45pm, with an agreement that I can take my lunch hour from 9-10am to enable me to get into the office after dropping off my kids at school. (It takes just under an hour to travel). My father has been collecting the kids from school on the two office days but unfortunately his health has now deteriorated to a state where this is no longer possible. I've therefore made a request to amend my working hours in the office.

I've requested to spread the office hours over 3 days instead of 2, thus enabling me to collect the kids from school and continue to wfh afterwards. I would work the same number of hours in the office and the same hours overall, so I didn't think it would be a big issue. Seems I was wrong! My manager is insisting that I come in for at least one full day per week. I can make this work at the moment with after school club but come September my eldest will be going to secondary school so after school club is not an option. I feel at 11 that he will be too young to be left on his own for 2 hours. I've explained that I really don't want to do this as it just means we have to have this conversation again in 6 months time but that doesn't appear to be making any difference.

I don't see the issue in me wanting to go home at 2pm instead of 4pm. There is nothing in my job that can only happen between the hours of 2-4pm in the office. Her excuse has been in case I need to ship anything from the office to an event, but of course there is ample time for me to do that between 9am-2pm, and actually me being in the office 3 times per week instead of 2 should be a benefit, as now there are 3 opportunities that I can ship out instead of 2. I should also point out that I probably ship something once a month at maximum, it's not a big part of my job.

I'd love to hear some advice as to my next steps. My manager doesn't have children and I think that's a big part of the problem. (Neither does the HR manager). My boss has made comments to me in the past that indicate that she thinks people with children are getting preferential treatment and she doesn't like it. When discussing my current problem with her, she just said 'well other people with families cope', as if that helps me in any way. For context, I am a single parent and my dad is the only family I have who could help with child care. So now I am stuck to just what is available through breakfast and after school clubs. The village where I live does not have child minders who would take children after school.

I think you’re pushing the flexibility too far, you can’t really do the hours that they need you to do. Can you start work at 9am? Or are you asking to take the hour lunch at 9, so not come in until 10 as well as leaving at 2?

Agree with PP & Unless I’m mistaken it also sounds like you want to leave the office early, collect the kids, and then continue to WFH while looking after them which is a big no no for most employers. Working = working, the same as you would in the office, not caring for children.

What hours are you hoping to do in the office? 10-2 for 3 days a week? As a manager, I try to be flexible, but this would be difficult as all/ any meetings would need to fall into this 4 hour slot, whilst also being mindful of lunch breaks. I am relaxed about my team coming in 2 rather than the company’s required 3 days, and have someone who works school hours, but this set up would be difficult for the business.

TBH I think you’re lucky they let you use your lunch hour to start your work day later, this is supposed to be a rest break so you aren’t working longer than 6 hours in a row.

I appreciate it’s probably a difficult time for you with your father’s illness but really if your current “childcare” is no longer available you should be looking for other options. Most employers dont really look kindly on staff working from home so they can take care of their kids at the same time

This wouldn’t be allowed at my work. It’s 2 days in the office per week and they need to be full days, I actually don’t think 2 days is too big of an ask for an employer. At my work you also aren’t allowed to do childcare at the same time as wfh.

I didn't think you were allowed to put your lunch hour at the start or end of your day. I think you're already pushing your luck.

You sound like you’ve had it a lot of flexibility so far - at age 11 unless there is SEND concerns then 2 hours is perfectly fine

Plenty of 11 year olds have a key and look after themselves for a couple of hours. Get him a mobile phone and ask him to text you when he gets home. Voila!

What hours are you currently employed to do, and what do you want to change these to? Do you get a paid lunch hour?

It does sound like you already have a very flexible set-up.

Could you use after school club to enable a longer day, and your eldest can let themselves in at age 11 (assuming of course they can get themselves home on the bus or walking)

You have a lot of flexibility, especially being allowed to do school runs and work while in sole charge of primary aged DC.

You should drop the request IMO and sort childcare.

11yo will be fine home alone.

I wouldn't approve this pattern, it's not legal

Appreciate it is tough OP but I think you have a pretty flexible set up already.

How many hours a week do you work? Im struggling to see how you can meet your work requirements with your proposal.
An hours break from 9-10am for the commute. Then leave the office at 2pm to get back for the school run at 3pm. Then you're at home with primary age kids to look after. When will you do your remaining contracted hours each 'office' day?

Surely your current arrangement isn’t legal, as the lunch break is meant to be a break if you work at least six hours, but you’re taking it at the beginning of the day, then working for longer than six hours?!

Also, under the new arrangement, you’d end up WFH whilst also doing childcare?

I'm a huge advocate for flexible working. But I do agree with your manager here, someone a 2pm finish just wouldn't work in my office, we would need you to be available for later meetings, full day events, to pick up late enquiries etc.

You are very fortunate that you get to use your lunch break like that as technically it should be a a break during your shift, they are breaking employment law if you work 6hrs without a break.

I would say use the after school club and see where you are in Sept. More secondary school kids don't need childcare.

I’m sorry about your dad OP. That must be stressful.

You already have a great deal of flexibility tbh. I’d be looking into an after-school arrangement for that one weekday during his first term at secondary school next year, whilst he settles in. Another parent, maybe, mixed with some annual leave. Where is his father? Other family?

Presumably from September your child will not need dropping at school. Can you go in earlier to get the full hours in at the office?

Taking your lunch/ rest break at the start of your day is outside of the guidelines ( 20 minutes in six hours with a specific note that this shouldn’t be at the start or end of your shift). If I were you and wanted to keep this going forward, I’d avoid rocking the boat further.

Aside to this, as a manager, I’d have to decline this on the basis of business need. Half days on site, in the middle of the day ( so including “normal” lunchtime) would massively limit the potential for colleagues to schedule in person meetings, and reduce the informal but helpful interactions that happen during face to face office days.

I also couldn’t allow routine WFH while an employee was the adult in charge of primary school aged children ( we do make one of exceptions for sick days, childcare disruption, inclement weather, etc).

The average 11 year old can stay home alone for a couple of hours while their parent goes out. What’s your plan for school holidays and inset days? I would start working on your son staying at home while you’re out so he can manage 2 hours by September. Won’t he be travelling to and from school without you anyway?

If I was your manager, your emphasise on needing to work at home because of children needing looking after would be undermining your case rather than strengthening it.

It sounds like you’re already getting a higher than usual level of flexibility, so it is worth trying to protect that.

One option might be to use the before school club for younger child and get in a lot earlier. Then you might be able to shift your lunch to end of day one day and reduce the time home alone.

Realistically though, working full time with children who cant be left unsupervised means needing childcare.

The problem is on those three office days you're effectively only available for four core hours (10-2) instead of seven? Ok maybe you're doing another hour when you get home from the school run but you're also looking after your kids. You're hugely limiting the amount of hours you are available to colleagues and frankly I'd be wondering whether you're even working your full contracted hours over the week

Your suggestion does not benefit your employer in any way so it’s easy to see why they said no.

Can you not get a child minder to drop your children at school in the morning, pick them up and keep them until you finish work. When your oldest starts secondary school they’ll be taking themselves won’t they? And they should be fine for two hours on their own.

Otherwise you need to find a new job with hours that suit.

If your child is in mainstream secondary school he should be perfectly capable of being alone for two hours. You’re being ridiculous.

My manager doesn't have children and I think that's a big part of the problem. (Neither does the HR manager).

With that attitude I hope you don't get your own way.