Career advice from senior women

[Careera]

I’m in my 20s and have a Maths degree with elements of Computer Science. I started my career in data roles, became a subject matter expert and then a manager.

My career was going well until I secured a senior management role and that’s when I first really experienced sexism. Even though I knew the role inside and out, was doing all the right things, was competent, I just was not taken seriously. Things got very bad, as in total bullying.

I’m in a new role now which is an upgrade in every way, but I can’t help but feel a bit shaken. I had some mentors who were men, but I guess I just need the insight of how women progress their career and break through the stigma.

I’m now 29 and earn £57k. But I feel if I wanted to progress my career and earn more (totally viable in data roles), I’m just going to ruffle feathers.

It sounds like you are in the wrong company. All employees are respected where I work.

There are good networks about women in data science roles. I'd start looking for those and actively ask more senior women for a coffee.

Most organisations have fewer women at the top and this creates and is created by subtle sexism that often men don't realise they are complicit in.

What's wrong with ruffling feathers?

You have a company culture problem. I work in a male dominated subject matter and the men bend over backwards to be respectful and get me on their teams. I am often been the only woman on the project, but I have never been treated with anything less than complete respect and been able to advance in my career.

Def find female mentors IRL. I am mid 50s and actively mentor a few young women in my sector. For me it got better as I got older but you need people in your corner. Network, go to women in tech events, connect with people even if you know them only slightly. Most will be more than willing to support. Good luck.

It sucks.

It helps me to take emotion, and ‘how it should be’ out of it. Sexism exists, bias is everywhere, and accepting that seems to help (before I was fighting to justify my worth, including to myself, constantly - which was just exhausting). Yes, I will need to work harder to progress my career, statistically, than a man would. I can’t change that, nor do I want to ‘give up’ or lower my goals, so my only option is to put in that work.

Thats not to say I turn a blind eye to sexism or happily accept it. I pick and choose my battles - generally anything salary related, or that works against people I line manage, I fight tooth and nail for. I call out obvious sexism. If an organisation shows signs of institutional sexism and I can’t change it, I’ll move on. But I try and not compare my progress with male colleagues, because it can get exhausting.

From experience I’ve maintained the mentality of trying to be excellent. I didn’t and don’t directly compete with anyone other than myself. To do better and be better and in a healthy way. I’ve found it easier as I’ve gotten older as it appears with age came gravitas or maybe that was me striving and being excellent. I don’t know. Once I understood the rules it was easier. In understanding the culture and whilst I didn’t change myself and I didn’t try to be ‘masculine’ either I changed my mindset so it didn’t affect me as it used to when I first landed a similar role and I was still myself. I learned from it. That’s probably not helpful. There are some very inspiring women that talk about these things at conferences or online and there are some support/advice networks.

Its a company problem. I work in the energy industry (oil and gas in the good old days) and have done for a very long time. Due to some regions, like the Gulf, growing over such a short space of time, they are surprisingly progressive around female leadership. Its just not an issue. About a hundred years ago, a woman advised me to never let the men see you cry. Sounds nuts but it's resonated through years of raising children and juggling on and offshore work, grappling with some of the old school brutes (usually Scottish or Texan) and peri-menopause. I think as ludicrous as it sounds, having that phrase in my head in split second moments has empowered me greatly. Ultimately I think you have to be really good at what you do and really give a shit about your job and your colleagues. People see through the blagging and would rather leaders who know and care about the job and the team.

I hear you. I’ve held very senior roles for over a quarter of a century. It never really goes away. Even when things are good the misogyny or my invisibility will occasionally peep out. I still love my job and (most) of my colleagues. And frankly I like earning more rather than less. Keep going. The more women there are in senior roles the less this should happen.

Totally agree with this.
55 year old woman in construction.

I was shocked when a friend of ours (solicitor) told me how she was treated by her male colleagues / boss. She even said how she felt she had to dress in a certain way to add more dominance.

Unfortunately her only way to solve it was to move firms and she flourishing now. Some companies won’t ever change because they’re more like boys clubs.

Hopefully, this isn’t the case for you but it is likely.

It might be sexism, it might be you bring young, it may be both combined. I'd second area specific mentoring schemes, you need allies and never be afraid to move roles or take it personally.

Haven’t experienced sexism at all at work so agree it’s probably a company culture problem.

Also consider if it’s a management skills/experience problem? It’s one thing being educated and a subject matter expert and experienced in your field, but leadership is different skillset. Are you sure people are responding to you in this way because you’re a woman, or could it be because you’re green at leadership?

@Lemonsugarpancakes I had sexist and ageist remarks, ie about my appearance. Not about my work.

I’m sure they perceived me as being “green” but that doesn’t excuse the outright bullying I faced. I was the youngest person on my team and my direct reports applied for my job and didn’t get it, so they were extremely critical, jealous and resentful. I don’t think they would have welcomed anyone new coming in to that role, because they felt it should have gone to one of them.

Thanks everyone.

My current employer is much better than my last, it feels like I have landed with a “normal” employer now. But I still get a bit nervous due to what I experienced before. I can’t stress enough how bad things were with my previous role/team…like employment tribunal levels of poor.

However generally speaking, most of the people I work with now in a technical capacity are men. There are women in other roles, but I’m quite often the only woman in any data-related workstream/discussion. Sometimes the guys can get a bit territorial. I’m coming in to replace a guy who was a technical guru, and I can tell the team are bummed he’s going.

I’m in a senior role and have been in senior roles for a few years. I think you become better equipped and develop more strategies to deal with this as you progress your career and get more experience under your belt and age, with which I assure you you start caring less which makes it all quite a lot easier!)

It’s a sad reality that this stuff happens though. Company culture is a big factor though - essentially will other people be shocked, see it as the norm or join in? I’ve worked in environments where the sexism and misogyny was so rife that it really was impossible to get anything done. One place I work I was sexually harassed every time I went into the office, and the women said I was “ruining things” if I spoke up. I just left - know when it’s time to give up the fight.

i currently work for a company with a lovely culture but there is still a tangible bit of sexism because there just is a lot of sexism out there. But it’s not the company’s culture if you see what I mean, it’s that there are a few sexist men. These days I just ignore it, they won’t get anywhere with me if they try to be superior just because they are men. Same with being ageist - I look younger than my 46 years so people make a lot of assumptions based on that, it doesn’t usually work out well for them!

Become mindful and observational about it too. There is an unspoken point in every discriminatory interaction where you are expected to “get in your place”. For sexism it would be acting in a way that confirms their male superiority. Simply, just don’t - but you need to be aware of the cues to make sure you aren’t subconsciously indicating you’re getting in your place.

Another one to look out for on the sexist axis is being “claimed” as a prize - I’m highly valued in the company due to my skills & experience but a side effect of this is that I currently have two men (one is my manager…) who want to have me as a trophy. They don’t get in my way but it’s really wearing as it’s essentially two alpha males competing over me. Boring, but not the first time this has happened to me - it’s a thing!

You just need to be strong & stand your ground
Earn your respect

Do not stand for any nonsense

I recommend a sense of humour

I worked in a male dominated industry for many years

I also recommend do not show any weakness

I concur with this - although rather than earning their respect, you have every right, as a fully-qualified person, to expect it.