Moral Dilemma

[MyPurpleHeart]

Hi Everyone, me again! You might remember me from the thread about the nightmare employee

I have a whole new drama now, this one I cant fix but I feel incredibly guilty.

I work in a marketing firm and manage several teams

One of the supervisors of the teams I supervise has managed to get himself if debt. Massive, spiraling, nightmare debt.

Not my business however, he has borrowed money from 4 other team members and paid none of them back. Nor does he intend to i think (he goes out for dinners every other night with his new GF and spent half an hour telling everyone hes booked a fancy holiday next year)

One of the team members is now financially struggling as hes lent him thousands, some he borrowed from one of his family members. This guy is directly managed by the supervisor and was pressured into it.

One of the other team members has been asking for his money back for a year, they almost came to blows last week because he was going on holiday and needed it to exchange for euros and supervisor said he wouldn't be paying him

Someone else who used to work here has threatened to turn up at the building and make noise if he doesnt pay him

I told my director it was becoming an issue months ago and nothing was done.

Today we had a chat about mental health and something the advisor said made me think that maybe I need to confidentially report what i know to HR.

I know the company can do nothing, but I worry that this situation is only going to get worse and the risk of people resorting to extremes to get paid is rising.

I made an anonymous report to HR this morning and now im wracked with guilt. I don't want to cause problems for someone who is spiraling out of control as it is, but I cant sit and ignore this situation anymore. People have told me in confidence for a reason and my MD has done nothing

I'm just looking for some opinions as everyone's feedback on the last post I made really helped. What would you have done?

If someone is using their position in work to coerce someone into lending (giving) them money then it’s a work issue.

You did the right thing.

I actually think the company should be involved and I’m surprised no one else reported it sooner? You can’t pressure people you manage into giving you money, surely that’s gross misconduct. Are you saying you feel guilty that you’ve reported this now? Rather than guilty that the poor staff member was pressured into giving a huge amount of money to their boss?

I think you’ve done the right thing flagging this to HR that someone is using their position to get money from those they are supervising.

You should have reported this as soon as you became aware of it, of course it’s not okay for a manager to pressurise his team into lending him money. Don’t feel guilty you’ve finally reported, if anything feel guilty you’ve ignored this for so long!

I feel guilty for reporting it and for the inevitable blow up that is coming

And I also feel responsible that its been reported (by me) before and my MD did nothing. He is going to be pissed off that Ive gone to HR without telling him

I reported it to my director months ago

He said he would deal with it and he hasnt

This should have been reported to HR from the get go.

I also don’t understand why you’re reported it anonymously? You supervise this supervisor that has been using his position at work to coerce people he supervises, into loaning him money?

After you’ve done the right thing. HR need to investigate what has happened. Especially if there is a potential abuse of power. Don’t feel bad for the guy, think of it as you’ve really helped your poor colleagues who are now struggling for money.

Its probably a chicken move, but my I reported it to my director and hes going to be pissed off that ive gone over his head to HR. Hes the type to take that as a slight

I think your only mistake here is doing this anonymously.

Quite frankly if people are being coerced by someone in a position of authority to lend money then that's a police matter.

If the person borrowing the money is in a position where he has power or influence over the people who have lent him money then that certainly is a work issue, it's abuse of his position and gross misconduct. He could be sacked, but then the people he has borrowed off will probably never see a penny. HR certainly need to be involved, but the ethical thing to do would be to give him a chance to keep his job if and only if he agrees a drastic system for payments of his debts to be deducted from his salary directly at payroll and repaid to the people who he owes.

NB Salary deductions managed by the employer can't take him below minimum wage, and must be agreed by him in writing.

Of course its a work matter - he has coerced his direct reports. In my industry that would be gross misconduct and exited. You should go to HR and tell them everything you know, not anonymously. What if HR do an investigation (and they should) and they find out that you knew and aside from telling your boss ages ago, didnt follow it up or protect your team or company reputation? Your job may be on the line too.

I can’t imagine any employer involving themselves in repayment arrangements between two employees. The only bit that belongs to HR is the issue of coercion.

Your MD had a duty of care to the staff he is responsible for. He has failed to act and so has no grounds to be in any way annoyed with you going to HR. Personally, I'd have put my name to that report. There is coercive behaviour happening here, from a supervisor to someone that works for them. That's gross misconduct.

Bloody hell.

This shouldn't be a moral dilemma. It shouldn't be a dilemma at all.

Coercing your line reports into lending you money is a sackable offence.

Your director will be in the shit as well, once it comes out that he knew about this but did nothing. But that's his problem, not yours.

Just re-read your posts and realised you reported it to HR anonymously.

You need to put your name to it, and ideally have a good explanation for why you didn't report it to them before now.

Otherwise it's going to look like one of the people who is owed money has reported it, and you are a manager who knew what was happening and did nothing.

Do you line manage the guy who is doing this? Because if so this is very much your business, and you should have involved HR as soon as you became aware of it.

He's no right to be pissed off. He should have dealt with it when he first knew about it. I'd say he should be shitting himself for failing to take action rather than being pissed off.

Totally different scenario for me, but I recently notified management of the huge Cocaine problem my colleague has, because it was no longer just whatever he was up to in his own time, the effects were obvious in his work, and had consequences on mine. There's a been quite the fall out, but he's admitted it. I don't feel guilty AT ALL.

is small claims court appropriate here? Can you support his staff to file?

id say it’s a police matter too

So when I say anonymously, I spoke to our H&S Advisor who was doing a talk on mental health and she said she would be reporting it to HR. So when it comes out there is a chain that leads back to me being the one reporting it, but I havent done the reporting myself. I also told the HR advisor that my director knows and she named my director and said oh so xxx knows?

But I take this on board, I should have gone directly to HR myself

Don't feel guilty. You haven't done anything wrong here - you're acting to protect your team and arguably the reputation of the company. I think this is likely a police matter but its out of your hands now. I am surprised employees haven't reported it or indeed gone to the police themselves.

You reported it previously
They didnt act upon is so its not yoir problem imho.
Police should be involved if this person is co-ercing others

They absolutely do need to know, and really needed to know much earlier.

Apart from anything else, an employee with significant debt problems represents a risk to the business, especially if their role involves money at all. I once worked with a guy who, as it turned out, had significant personal debt, and he defrauded the company out of tens of thousands of pounds.

It's absolutely not a police matter based on the information we have here...OP would have to be unaware of, or leaving out, some massive details. There's a big difference between "I didn't feel like I could say no because they're my boss" and "My boss threatened to fire me if I didn't give them money".

Small claims would be the solution. They would need proof of the loan. But even then, winning would not guarantee getting the money back.