On long term sick, get income protection but will it stop if they dismiss me

[Su55anr]

On long term sick & getting Income protection from my employer. They are strongly hinting at dismissing me.
The income protection pays me 50% of salary for a maximum of 5 years. I’ve been paid IP for the last 6 months.
i think they will dismiss me on capabilities as I’m not currently able to do my job but I’m hoping my health will improve & I can return to it in time.
If they dismiss me am I correct in stating the income protection will cease too.
Thank you for any help you can offer

Bambamhoohoo, you are spot on with saying ill health does make life much worse. I really miss my work & the people in my team but i did make decisions that could financially impact people lives and I currently would see myself as a risk to the business if I went back to early

I think they would be on dubious grounds to dismiss you before the OH assessment although I’m amazed you’ve been off this long without one given they have access to it.

Fuzzywolf, HR did say in my last meeting with them in August that they should have referred me for OH assessment earlier. I have agreed to every meeting, provided evidence of any appointments I’ve had to them & been clear I need to work as have mortgage to pay

I suppose, as an outsider looking at what you have noted about your health issues, arthritis is a degenerative condition. It's only going to get worse. What makes you think you will be able to return to work in 6 months and continue working?

I know that sounds harsh. I suffer advanced degeneration of multiple major joints and spine myself, so I am not being unsympathetic to your condition, just thinking from the employers perspective.

k1233, thank you for your comment as you’ve made me stop and realise I have nothing at all to base the idea I can return to work in 6 months on.
My savings are topping up my reduced salary currently & will be gone in 6 months.
My health hasn’t improved in the last year but I’ve learnt a few coping strategies which are helpful.
You've given me a ‘wake up call’ which is to face the reality of my situation.

Can you opt for ill health retirement OP? I’m also off on long term sick with cancer. No income protection unfortunately, so once pay stops in December, it’s PIP and esa only. ill health retirement is not something I’d ever though I’d have to face, but yet it’s looking more and more like my reality.

Best of luck.

k1233, thank you for your comment as you’ve made me stop and realise I have nothing at all to base the idea I can return to work in 6 months on.

This is why you really need the OH assessment and no decisions should be made until then. OH will likely request a report from medical professionals involved in your care so they can see what treatment you’ve had, what progress you’ve made and what the prognosis is. Then a return to work date, or termination of contract on medical unfitness grounds or medical retirement can be a decision based on medical facts.

Good practice would have been to refer you at 6 months absence so all this was already in hand. Your HR/manager are absolutely not qualified to make these decisions.

What’s stopping you from working now? Will those barriers be gone or improved in 6 months?

I believe (fairly certain as i had this query when i was HR and i realised we were exposed in this area) whether they can dismiss whilst you are receiving IP depends on their wording in their (employers) policy or contract.

It has to refer to them having the right to dismiss for capability even if the IP scheme has kicked in, and that whether benefit can continue to be paid will be dependant on the providers rules. Some scheme providers will have discretion as to whether they will continue to pay if employment ceases.

It seems to contradict the point of having IP if the company can then dismiss, but it can be done if its provided for in the contract/policy.

So you'd need to check the wording.

Megifer, I have asked HR previously for a copy of the Income protection plan. However, HR stated the policy is not theirs and therefore they cannot provide me with a copy.
At my last HR meeting in August, my union rep was present and he accepted their answer.

Overthebow, I have stated some of my health conditions earlier in this post.

It's hard to face. I've had to give up riding, and I loved that. I was in denial for ages but I've lost significant range of movement and am in a lot of pain daily.

Is there work you can do, maybe with ergonomic accommodations? Is it possible to talk to your employer about redeployment to a role better suited to your limitations? Is part time an option? Medical redundancy might be an option, it could give you a financial cushion to allow you time to find something physically easier for you.

Brainstorm to see what you can come up with. Nothing is off the table. Based on your current health, what could you do? Come up with a bunch of wild and whacky ideas and then sift the list down to what might work for you.

Don't you have your own insurance to cover the mortgage?

Critical illness cover for your mortgage is very expensive (depending on your level of mortgage payout required of course)

I would imagine most peoples insurance only covers mortgage in the event of their death. I’ve recently taken out a new policy (have no medical history that would impact the premium) and only £25k critical illness was affordable in addition to the payout for death (I’m paying £124 a month)

I can’t comment on the policy question itself but saying it’s not their policy does not make sense. As an employee benefit, they should be providing the terms of the policy. The policy must belong to your employer! I would follow this up and don’t take no for an answer.

No one here can possibly answer on the information provided here. Sometimes income protection will mean that you shouldn’t be dismissed. Sometimes dismissal will be legally fine. Someone needs to look at the wording of your employment contract and the scheme rules. You’ll need to get legal advice. From an employment lawyer, not ACAS who won’t have a clue.

TartanMammy
Bambamhoohoo
i have life & critical illness insurance to cover my mortgage. Fortunately, I don’t have any critical illness’s

Iwouldratherbemuckingout, yes you’re correct the policy does belong to my employer.
I have requested a copy of the income protection policy a few times verbally & by email. At the last meeting with HR I asked again & was told in no uncertain terms I would not get it as it’s not there’s to give. My union rep was present too but didn’t query this

Alpacajigsaw, thanks for letting me know I need to speak to an employment lawyer not ACAS.
I do have a copy of my employment contract from 2018 when I started there. However, the company was bought by a large well known insurance provider a few years ago. Our contract wasn’t updated, but we did get an improvement in benefits when we were taken over. The company I work for retained its name & continued with business as usual but under the umbrella of the firm that bought us. I will investigate employment solicitors, thank you

Enigma54,
Really sorry to hear of your diagnosis, do hope you get as much help & support as possible.
I doubt I’d qualify for Ill health retirement as isn’t that where the employer allows you to retire but pays a lump sum into your pension for the years you won’t be working ?
example I am almost 61 & state retirement is at 67 for me. If I earned 50k pa they currently pay 8% of salary to my pension. It would cost them 50k x 8% x 6yrs =24k.

I don't want to sideline the thread, insurance quotes will be different dependant on circumstances but it really isn't expensive for everyone, mine is £7 a month for death cover and £9 per month for critical illness. This is for both me and dp as a couple, we took it out when we bought out house when were younger so a new policy would probably be much more expensive. But it's possible the op could have been in a similar situation.

You really need to talk to the employment law solicitor, imo.

Normally, people on sick leave need to have occupational health assessment to see if they could do any role. An employer with resources would be expected to create a position to accommodate.

Sacking someone on sick leave for capability is disability discrimination. The payout could be huge. Have a read of a couple recent employement tribunal rulings and see for yourself

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/68d690684e830dd22fa1ced7/Ms_J_Wilkinson_v_Cleveland_Fire_Authority_2501242-24_Reasons.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6894907de7be62b4f0643101/Mr_Neil_Wilson_v_Aliaxis_UK_Limited_2304190-2023_Judgment.pdf

You can also talk to ACAS. However, they don't give legal advice.

Most of the time, HR are to protect the employer, not look after an employee. Contrary to popular belief, they do not always know what they are doing.

I suggest you try to get legal advice. Sometimes universities run clinics staffed by law students offering free advice under the supervision of their lecturers. Also worth contacting your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

I hope it helps

Further to the earlier post ... check if you have legal cover on your mortgage insurance. It would have been helpful if you were a union member. Most people don't realise they can join a union even if their workplace isn't unionised. Unions provide lawyers

Kosenrufugirl, I am a member of Unite and I had the union rep present at my first & only meeting with HR in August.

TartanMammy, I have life insurance to cover mortgage & just 20k of critical illness cover which I took out when I was 55 as I was divorcing and starting over. I currently pay £184.20 pm as I am disabled & have several health conditions. Previously had had a joint life & critical illness policy with husband which was cheaper but cancelled when divorced.
I don’t have a ‘critical illness’ but I do have some chronic illness’s but these are not included in the policy

Some union reps are better than others. I suggest you contact Unite ask to speak to their employment laywer.

In an ordinary unfair dismissal the compensation is usually limited to 4-6 months of wages. There is no limit on disability discrimination compensation. Your employer is playing with fire. Whether they realise it or not, I am not sure. You need legal advice.

In the meantime, start collecting evidence. Any conversation - write a summary, email it the same day to your boss with HR copied in, ask politely to clarify and correct if you got anything wrong. Make sure you ask for the TEAMs meetings to be recorded before and at the beginning of each meeting. Employers often try to avoid leaving evidence trail. You would need evidence to make a successful employment tribunal claim, if it ever came to this. It's best to be prepared for the worst

You’ve had good advice from @Kosenrufugirl
Definitely contact Unite main office and ask for legal help. That’s what you pay your union fees for!