Not allowed a break despite working 6.5 hours today

[MsAdoraBelleDearheartVonLipwig]

I help out in a shop. I’ve posted on here recently about their shenanigans.

I get in at 9:45am on a Sunday to get the shop ready. We open at 10am. We close at 4pm. We clear up and leave at 4:15pm. Apparently we’re not supposed to have a break. Despite the law saying I’m entitled to a 20 minute break if working more than six hours.

Before I say anything could someone please confirm whether I’m right or not? Have I misinterpreted the law?

legally the break DOES have to be in the middle of the shift, it cannot be at the start or the end.

It's quit concerning that you are employing or managing people and do not know this.

If there are any under 18's working the law is 30 minute break of working more than 4.5 hours

Six hours with no food or drink is bloody horrible though and would make me feel quite unwell.

If you were sacked for asserting your right to take a statutory work break it would be automatic unfair dismissal and you don't even need two years of service.

@Pebblepoppy

Why would you want a break? Yes, technically you should have one if you work over 6 hours, but it would be unpaid, so if you have a 30 min break, you'll be at work for the same amount of time, but paid 30 mins less.
If you really want it, yes you should have it but ime, people working those kind of hours prefer not to.

Are you having a laugh???

'Why would you want a break?' 🙄 What kind of question is that?! Six and a half hours with no break is not on. OP should have a 15-20 minute break, (minimum) to have a drink/a bite to eat/a rest. About 3 and a half hours into her day. Probably around 1pm to 1.20pm... And she should get paid for it!

How ludicrous to suggest she shouldn't WANT a break!

I always offer a break to my people working slightly over 6 hours. They never want it.

And 'your employees' don't want a break after you have graciously offered one after six hours! Why on earth not? They deserve one. They need one. You should GIVE them a break, not ask if they want one. With the attitude you are displaying, it sounds like they would be afraid take a break!!!

Another thing is, you claim that people don't need a break after 6 to 6 and a half hours, yet you say you offer one. That's not making sense to me. Why would you offer them a break after 6 to 6 and a half hours, if you reckon they don't need one?!

Good grief, no wonder so many people hate work, hate their bosses, and have so much sick leave, and work related stress! Some employers are not employee friendly! At ALL!

@MsAdoraBelleDearheartVonLipwig OP you need to get this sorted, and report your employer if they refuse to give you a break. Or as you said, find another job. Your employer sounds dreadful. Contact Citizens Advice or ACAS. If you let employers get away with treating you badly, they'll keep doing it!

You’re meant to make sure they take it, not just offer it. If you employ people, the least you should be doing is complying with the law.

If she was dismissed due to asking for her legal right to a break that would be automatic unfair dismissal. No minimum length of service needed.

Are the breaks unpaid then? A few years ago I worked in a department store and we had a 20-min break in the morning. It was paid, and I assumed it had to be.

Exactly. It’s not even like she’s at a desk where she can have a coffee and eat whilst working

Breaks can be unpaid. This is more common than paid breaks. Every job I have ever had has had unpaid breaks - eg 9 - 5 with an hours unpaid lunch - so a 7 hour working day

Yes, my current working day is as you describe, in an office.

This department store job was in the mid-Nineties, and we also had lunch in addition to the 20-min morning break. I guess the lunch was unpaid, but I can't remember. I think we also had an afternoon break, and that was paid too.

They were an old-fashioned family employer and it sounds like we had it better back then than now, for retail.

They can be paid or unpaid,; depends on the employer

Yeah, and to eat a sandwich too,. Six hours on a shop floor with no break is hard.

I used to work at a large chain outdoors shop who tried every trick possible to get round employment law, combined with utterly shit management. It was amazing, looking back.
Shifts would change with no warning (you could turn up to find your shift changed/cancelled), 5.5 hour shifts reduced to 5 so no break due (loved those 9.30 - 2.30 shifts…) but the BEST was that sometimes they’d run out of money half way through the day so people would get sent home.

All shop floor staff were only on 4 or 8 hours a week contracts but they had you working full time. Anyone who dared ask for a full time contract got their hours reduced to base.

You are legally entitled to a break and your employer is legally obliged to let you take it.

If you do decide to challenge it, put your request in writing so that you have evidence if there is any comeback.

Why should people have to do this nonsense? Why don’t we all go work in a Chinese sweatshop if this is what we are willing to put up with and all we think we are worth. Every person who bends over backwards for a money grabbing company makes it worse for the next. The company won’t thank you, they will think ‘well if we can get away with cutting corners here what else can we get away with!’

Maybe your employees are turning down breaks because the way you’re wording it is creating an environment where they feel they can’t accept. If your attitude is ‘why would you want a break’ then they’ll be picking up on that.

Also yes it could be a 30min unpaid break or alternatively you could suggest a 15minute paid break. I bet moral would be higher.

Just to be clear, 20 minutes is the legal minimum, not 15.

The only people who should be working through their breaks is people who can genuinely organise their own work eg. managers who schedule their own days. There has been a recent tribunal case where someone has won because their employer altered the rota to reflect this person had previously not wanted to take breaks. The opportunity to take a break must be given, the employee does not have to ask for the break. (Grange v Abellio)

I’ve just had a call from a manager to clarify what break I took. Apparently we’re only supposed to have ten minutes on a Sunday. It was clearly discussed in the shop today. I’m not in today.

She’s now concerned that I’ve been getting paid for lunch breaks when I shouldn’t have been. Am I now in trouble? It would only apply to about three or four Sundays.

Well if you aren’t taking any breaks, just tell them that. And do direct them to the legal aspect of this. If you work in excess of six hours, they have to give you a break of at least twenty minutes.

You're supposed to have 20 minutes on any day in which you work for more than 6 hours.

This is the law, they can't just make it up as they go along.

Your manager also shouldn't be bothering you on your day off.

Well they should have worked out themselves whether or not they pay for breaks! You are entitled to 20 minutes. Maybe that could be 2x10 minutes rather than a full 20 minutes at once.

I’ve worked out that I’ve worked four Sundays in which this might apply. So if I’ve had half an hour each time when I should have only had 20 minutes by law, then I owe them about 40 minutes.

I’m getting fed up with this. I might raise a grievance.

The law could not be any clearer. More than 6 hours work is entitled to "one uninterrupted break of 20 minutes".

Https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

I guess you could work those extra 40 minutes you "owe" them and then go back to 20 minutes break. They legally can't make you work over 6 hours and not let you have the 20 mins at some point during the shift.

Is this a high street chain? It's kind of giving me charity shop vibes, because they expect work for free anyway, but maybe I'm mistaken. Name and shame op. Name and shame.

It’s not a high street chain but we do have a few stores round the country.

It’s not just me this applies to, it must apply to every other member of staff that works on a Sunday too.

On hold to Acas now.