Dismissed My Job Due To Absence linked to my Disability

[mummytippy]

Apologies for my lengthy post. I added a post (in May) regarding wanting advice for my employer to look to make reasonable adjustments for me due to my disability of hearing loss and Tinnitus. I had been employed by my ex employer 22 months. I had gone of work last November due to work related stress but was also waiting on an Audiology referral to come through. My employer was aware of all of my health issues. I had an attendance and wellbeing review (AWR) in May and was told I could discuss appropriate headsets at my next AWR which was scheduled for 18/6. I did contact the RNID and Tinnitus UK so that I could gather as much knowledge as I could prior to this. Before the AWR in June I had also bumped in to a colleague who has a similar hearing issue to me and he had recommended the headset he wears and sent me a link for it which I forwarded to my team leader. Just before the AWR, I then received an invitation for a capability assessment/attendance review to take place on 23/6. I contacted my TL and she said that it might not go ahead. It would depend on the outcome of the AWR with her. I had a fit note with a return to work date of 14/7 with recommendations from my GP. On the 18/6 I attended the AWR and tried to discuss my RTW but it was like the tone had completely changed. I took with me a proposed phased RTW plan to discuss, information from the RNID, Tinnitus UK and also evidence I had been speaking with an Employment Support Advisor via Talking Therapies but it all seemed to fall flat and was met with no interest. I was dumbfounded. I asked my TL to discuss my proposed phased RTW plan emphasising it would need to meet with her approval but she was not interested. She was really quiet. The note taker during the AWR was also a TL I knew (but not well) and he asked me questions which I felt were hostile. The whole experience was awful. I felt completely ganged up on. I did manage to show my white noise sound support and show how it sits behind my ear. The reasonable adjustments I asked for were: to sit somewhere quite on ‘in office days’ and for ad-hoc additional health breaks to adjust/remove my sound support. These were agreed to verbally. Where I raised the question about the link to the headset and the link I’d sent my TL, she said that she had been unable to follow the link and she asked why I had not just bought one. I explained that we were due to discuss headsets at this AWR. there was a cool response, my proposed phased RTW plan was merely photocopied and I was told the Capability/Attendance Review Hearing would still be going ahead. At this point in time I had 2 further medical appointments to still attend. One was my final session of CBT therapy due to happen the day of the hearing (23/6) and the other was with the Audiologist on 20/6 (rescheduled from 30/5 due to the Audiologist being ill). This was a follow up appointment to see how I was getting on with the sound support. Through my employer I had private medical cover. I had spoken with them at the end of May and a report was compiled. The report stated I have a disability and that my employer should allow me to trial a RTW after all my medical appointments were completed.
as I hadn’t like the time of the AWR and the Attendance Hearing was still going to go ahead, I sent a letter to my TL requesting a reasonable adjustment for the 2 requests above. This was never acknowledged. On top of this, when the notes from the AWR meeting were sent to me, they were inaccurate and incomplete. I replied to the email containing the Tale notes with my version of the notes asking for them to be recompiled. This was not done before the hearing. I had joined the Union but too late for them to represent me but they were able to give me basic advice which was if I wasn’t happy with the notes I needed to make this clear but I could attend the hearing to discuss my return to work. Unfortunately I didn’t receive a reply from the Union representative until after the hearing but the morning of the hearing I did send the hearing manager an email to ask her if it could please be rescheduled and why. She declined and because in the invite it had said that a decision on my employment could be made in my absence I felt I had no choice but to attend. My final session of CBT took place and ended an hour before the hearing. I did have a colleague attend and take notes. The hearing was a hideous experience. The hearing manager was very dismissive of my health issues and seemed to have an issue with my proposed phased RTW plan. I emphasised I was not happy with the notes from the AWR and that the RTW was a proposal. From the audiology appointment on the 20/6 the audiologist had put a new program on the device which was a hearing aid function and this was a significant improvement for both my hearing and Tinnitus. I was advised to have a period of ‘habituation’ to get used to this so explained this. In relation to the CBT my practitioner had advised a period of stabilisation following this (as she had also recommended I have some bereavement counselling too). I explained this and I must point out the final reports were not available at this time as still being typed up by the health professionals. I was just completely unheard. The hearing manager had also still been sending additional things into the appendices for this hearing on the 20/6 which was just one working day before the hearing (as a Friday) so I felt everything was rushed. The hearing manager ended the hearing at it was agreed I would speak with my GP to see if I could return to work sooner than 14/7 so I had agreed I would seek their guidance due to the recommendations above from the Audiologist, CBT practitioner and the companies healthcare provider which stated phased RTW at beginning of July after all appointments completed. About and hour after the meeting the hearing manager phoned me and asked if I could RTW on 30/6 and she would put 24/6 through to 27/6 through as annual leave. As I was away from 24/6 because my boyfriend had booked a surprise short break for me as I’d had a rough time and he knew I did not want to take any further time off work after returning, the earliest I could see my GP was on 30/6. I assured her I would seek their guidance on 30/6 and update her as soon as possible. I felt very pressured and told her this. I did this on 1/7 sending a revised fitnote in with a RTW of 7/7 with my GPs recommendations in the comments which included the habituation period and the stabilisation period and details of a phased return to work. I also added that I was open to speaking with my TL to discuss the plan for the following week during the course of that week. She acknowledged receipt, said she was still reviewing my case and that she would be in touch on 3/7 with her decision. I had logged in on my work laptop through the week, reading emails and preparing myself to return. On 3/7 I received her decision which was to dismiss me. She stated I had further delayed my return to work. I was distraught. I feel like I have been punished. I appealed the decision but the outcome remained the same. The hearing manager of the Appeal Hearing was a Customer Service Manager so I feel this wasn’t really appropriate either as no HR / Occupational Health element. I am now going through the Early Conciliation process with ACAS. I would like reinstatement as I do not feel I should have lost my job. My boyfriend (we do not live together) works for the same company (it is where we met) and I just feel completely isolated now as this has made things very awkward. I feel I have lost my career. My colleagues (our colleagues) who became friends now feel awkward. I’m now unemployed, obviously have outgoings and have gone from being in a secure position to the opposite and where I had improved my mental health to return to work, this has deteriorated again due to what has happened. If anyone could please advise me as I am so upset about all of this. TIA.

I am surprised they were so patient and supportive with you given the amount of time you had off having only been there for 22 months if I am honest They aren’t going to reinstate you I would just move on and look for another job that you are more suited to
what was the job anyway do you have any transferable skills that you could apply for something similar

I wonder if you and your previous employer are completely crossing wires.

You're fixating in the recent tinnitus issues and headsets. Tinnitus is pretty common, and many people work with it with zero adjustments. As you’ve said yourself, your absences have primarily been work related stress. The hearing issues may have exacerbated that, but it would seem like your absence rate over your time there is pretty indicative that you are not able to manage the role. Needing to be fully off work while waiting for cbt for issues linked to doing your core role is not an indicator that the role is suitable for you. A more common situation would be doing the cbt while working.

I just looked back at your 2021 thread - odd how back then you weren’t in a union but called on them when you were in trouble like this and the company wanted to let you go. Yet when you again got in this new job and things started going wrong, you still didn’t join the union and waited until you were on the brink of being let go again and then called on their help. You’d think at some point, maybe after being off for the first six months or so, it might occur to you to join a union but nope, you just want them there to fight for you when you’re already screwed. That’s really not in the spirit of unions and says a lot about the tunnel vision you have of your own needs versus everyone else’s, whether that’s employers or co-workers. It’s a sadly blinkered view that will only harm you in the end. You get out what you put in after all.

In your case, yes, because it was justified. You were dismissed "for poor attendance. For having a ‘longer period of time off than normal’ and I was seen to be further delaying my return to work." You should accept your personal responsibility for your termination, move on and show a greater sense of conscientiousness and commitment to your next employer.

But clearly they are not desperate enough to want you back. You have burnt your bridges with this company. You say you are good at the role but evidently not good enough. They have given you chances but 22 months of shocking attendance means they have had enough of you, how can a business operate when workers aren’t there 40% of the time.

@mummytippy there are so many call based jobs. Wouldn't it be better to focus on looking for a new job and taking this as a learning experience?

This is going to come across as harsh and I don’t mean to I am just trying to put another spin on things for you. You have stated work related stress anxiety why would you want to go back to a job that makes you feel like that. You don’t seem very resilient other people deal with bereavement looking after elderly parents why do you want to take them to tribunal that will cause you stress? Is this stress going to be carried over to your next job affect your performance there while dealing with this.
I don’t think they sacked you for having a disability they eventually sacked you as you were taking the piss in 22 months you were off sick just under 50% of the time I don’t know many employers who would of kept you on after your first period of sickness most would of said this isn’t the job for you. I understand you only got ssp but they have kept your job open for your return to work managed a staff member down and engaged with you for 10 months

unless your role is very niche hardly anyone has your skills so can’t easily be replaced I think you have been lucky they have been supportive for so long

Have you actually read any of OP's posts?

• She was employed from August 2023 for fewer than 5 months before she went off sick with work-related stress for almost 3 months. Her employer made reasonable adjustments upon her return in that they allowed her to remove herself to a quiet area when she had a panic attack. (Bear in mind, OP's role was WFH with a requirement to be in the office just 2 days per month.)
• OP continued to work for 7.5 months before going sick again in November 2024 for 7.5 months with anxiety/stress and tinnitus.
• OP also tells us that she also has sciatica and her employer made a reasonable adjustment by providing her with a different chair.
• OP was employed for 22 months and was off sick for almost 11 of them.
• She was subject to a disciplinary, the outcome of which was that she was asked to return to work on 30th June, but OP refused because her boyfriend had booked a week's holiday for them, which delayed her seeing her GP, and she wanted (not needed) to see her GP before returning to work. Consequently, she was dismissed "for poor attendance. For having a ‘longer period of time off than normal’ and I was seen to be further delaying my return to work."
• OP appealed the dismissal decision. Her appeal was heard by a different manager and the decision was upheld.
• During all this sick leave the employer's external health provider supported OP, even though she refused some of this support which might have speeded up her access to certain treatments.

Please tell me what you think OP's former employer did wrong - legally, procedurally or morally?

There is no way any company in their right mind would reinstate someone who was off half of the time they were employed .

i actually can’t believe this is real , I know people who have had major life saving operations and haven’t been off for this length of time .

Absolutely. I joined a union at my first job and paid my dues for five years - I never had to use their services, but it was like an insurance policy knowing they would support me if I needed them to and that my sub's helped the union support other employees who did need them during those years. Some people want to contribute nothing whilst expecting to take at others' expense.

OK for someone to say what to you?
And why are you saying now "I know everyone on here will have experienced some kind of trauma ..." when you previously wrote it was clear to you that "the majority of posters had not suffered ..."?
Your inconsistencies between posts are ludicrous.

The issue is that, from your employer's perspective, they don't want you in your original role because you have already demonstrated that you're not capable of doing that job. It doesn't really matter how many of the roles are available because you haven't been made redundant, you have been sacked for poor attendance. You've had 10 months off sick in 22 months of employment, with 7 of those months ostensibly triggered by stress arising from the introduction of a new IT system. They clearly don't have confidence now that you can do the role, even with the relatively minor adjustments that you've asked for.

You want another chance to prove that you can do the job. They clearly feel that they have already given you ample opportunity, and you haven't convinced them that you're up to it.

I am not saying this to be unkind. I am genuinely trying to get you to see it from their perspective. It isn't your fault that you have been ill, but the fact remains that you haven't been a reliable or productive employee for them. It isn't realistic to expect them to keep employing you when your attendance has been so poor, and to be honest, your reluctance to return to work on the date that they requested was probably the last straw - you unintentionally sent the message that you were not really listening to their concerns or taking them seriously.

@mummytippy i think the issue here is your mindset and complete lack of urgency you’ve had in trying to get back to work, especially as you were employed with the company less than 2 years . I completely appreciate how hard it can be but ultimately you are the one in control of your life, you’re not just along for the ride.
I work full time, I have tinnitus and hearing loss. I have ADHD, chronic daily migraine, osteo arthritis, currently waiting for a knee replacement and have compressed discs in my neck and back. I’m also on anti depressants. I’m a lone parent to a teen who is autistic and haS ADHD who hasn’t been to school in more than 3 years. I’ve fought and fought the Local Authority for the last 3 years and finally got her into a college which fingers crossed will meet her needs. But it also currently means that 2 afternoons per week i’m working on my laptop and taking work calls from my car. I also have CBT weekly outside of work hours. I choose to work despite waking up feeling like crap most days. My employers are pretty good and trust me to do my job in the way which suits me best and ensures everything gets done in a timely fashion. I’ve been there 3.5 years and they only trust me because they have seen me time and time again give everything i can when ive felt less than able to. I’ve been completely honest with my manager about my health/stress issues too. That has resulted in me getting a good amount of flexibility in my work ( which by the way i reciprocate) which has and continues to help me a lot. Honesty, reciprocity and a good work ethic are things you can choose to implement in any job. It’s a choice.

• She was subject to a disciplinary, the outcome of which was that she was asked to return to work on 30th June, but OP refused because her boyfriend had booked a week's holiday for them, which delayed her seeing her GP, and she wanted (not needed) to see her GP before returning to work. Consequently, she was dismissed "for poor attendance. For having a ‘longer period of time off than normal’ and I was seen to be further delaying my return to work."

i suspect the desire to see the GP before returning was to get another sick note. Why else would you need to see the gp before going back? And I bet her employer suspected the same.

OP is a walking sick note who’s done the same in her previous job.

Nope not buying this you are contradicting yourself. You knew an approved headset. Had a link. Couldve bought it. Blaming employer- I don't know why. All I can see is delay, delay. No personal responsibility.

You're not acknowledging what people are telling you! It's not normal to do what you do! Telling.us that we are all wrong and you are the only one that's right is ridiculous! You shouted at me about what have I been through in the last ten months? I haven't been sat on my arse watching day time all year! I was made redundant from a job I loved last September and that put me through a lot, started a new job early Feb which is always stressful, I've not settled in because the job was missold and has call handling work I wasn't told about, it's worsened the depuytrens I have in both my hands due to fast writing and typing of reports that come through by phone, I have a hearing impediment and I get calls from noisy bank branches and struggle to hear, I'm struggling to get what help I need from the NHS for my hands and wrists and I need to understand the future because I don't want to end up needing too many surgeries or even fingers amputated. I don't sit at home though! I keep my eye out for more suitable work!

Back in 2016, I got promoted at my then workplace and just as I started in a new department, I found out that my dad had cancer and had just 3 months to live or 1.5 years with chemo! It was a bolt out of the blue, the chemo caused sepsis and he died 4 months later! I was off work two weeks! I preferred getting stuck into my job and being around people to sitting at home. My mum's mental health spiralled and she was very difficult and mentally abusive, threats to kill herself etc over the coming years - I never sat at home and stopped working! I had colleagues go through bereavements and the most I saw people take off was 6 weeks!

You don't seem to realise what a big red flag you are to an employer! You sat at home for a year and a third!! Then got a job and barely ever showed up over the space of two years! You are a serial absentee that uses any excuse! You lost your job in early July and yet you've still sat on your sofa for over 3 months! Have you not bothered to try and find any other work! You don't see how deliberate all this looks? You aren't going back to that job after all this time! They'll have replaced you by now! In your heart of hearts was you going to go back and stay back? For a job you say you hate? You need to find work somewhere else and make sure you turn up every day!

This is what I hate about COVID, those that got a paid three year break from work suddenly found working for a living unpleasant! You've worked ten months in the last 5.5 years! Crazy!

I do find it annoying when people who don't agree with or support unions and/or don't want to pay the union subscription, suddently expect the union to step in and fight their corner when it looks as though they could lose their job.

It would have been a good investment for someone with all OP's physical and mental health issues to have joined the union when she commenced employment with the company. She didn't do that so expecting support from the union now is pretty unreasonable.

I feel sorry for the OP as she obviously has some conditions and disabilities that impact her ability to work, but she has made some frankly odd decisions, such as going on the holiday, which will have annoyed her employer.

OP it reads as though you suffer from a victim mentality. Have you explored this in your counselling? It would be a better use of your time to work on this rather than an unwinnable Employment Tribunal.

With the OP it's been

Furlough
Off sick from job 1.
Unemployed
Starts job 2
Prolonged time off sick
Back to job 2
Even longer time off sick
Unemployed.

It's nothing to do with COVID and everything to do with the OPs work ethic, or lack of.

I don't disagree but I bet the OP isn't the only person that enjoyed two year paid holiday and then struggled to get back into having to get up and go to work in a morning! It was always going to affect sone people psychologically.

Ah that’s insightful - I think you’re very likely right in your suspicion. Which means the co were right in their decision.

I said that in the first few pages of the thread. The OP didn’t respond. But seems pretty likely.

Except it was never 2 years. The scheme ran for 18 to 19 months, but the average length off on furlough was 3 months. Only 5% - 10% for more than a year, and none for two.

The OP was furloughed for 4 months.
This is on her.

Is it possible, that the OP is actually a bit delusional and sub consciously behaving like this and avoiding work without actually being able to recognise it in themselves? Long shot I know, but the absolute denial and refusal to accept what the overwhelming majority of posters are saying is a bit concerning!… putting it mildly!