Considering moving into teaching aged 45, how realistic and salary projections?

[BritBratGrot]

Hi, I'm a chemistry graduate and PhD. I moved into data and currently have a reasonably senior job heading a data science type team, £80k salary.

On one hand I love many aspects of my job: the technical wrangling, the people including my team, the serving my stakeholders with useful data products.

However I'm also a) bored b) frustrated I am never resourced properly and c) feel undervalued and unappreciated by the top bods who I've not managed to convince of the value my team brings and how much of the team's output outs driven by me personally - my team are all lovely but have significant personal or capability issues so I'm getting nowhere near as much out of them as I'd ideally like to given the headcount.

Anyway I am sensing redundancy in the next few months and I'm beginning to daydream about changing my career. I've always fancied teaching science but it's never been the right time to move and take a paycut. However maybe the time has arrived.

I'm not sure which teaching scheme would fit me best, open to ideas. Also if my starting salary is around £32K, given all my management and senior leadership, strategy etc experience, how might my salary be expected to progress?

I used to tutor gcse while I was studying and loved it, and I'm also a volunteer teacher in my (outing 😂) hobby, so I've got a good amount of reason and confidence for thinking I'd be good at it and more importantly enjoy it.

I'm am energetic and very positive 45. I know everyone is leaving teaching at the moment but could I do this?

I don’t work 4 evenings, though I admittedly usually do a bit at weekends. Apart from the odd really busy week like mocks, open evenings etc I can usually keep on top of things by staying at work until about 5ish. I think workload really depends on your school and your department.

My brother did this, also has a PhD (biology / chemistry) had been working in a corporate environment as a marine biologist.

Needed to stay close to home so retrained as a teacher. Within 3 years was Head of Science in a multiple academy trust, v good salary, great pension, was exasperated with burocratic policies but being older and experience in life let the nonsense pass him by, and did the job his way and got great results. Retired a couple of years ago after 15 years and seemed to get a v good pension.

@BritBratGrot

You would be lucky to hit £50K

The truth is that even if you work in a school that abides by the pay scale, most of them have split it further so that yearly increases are not the full amount think

MPS 1, 1A, 1B, 1C and these will be linked to targets that are set for you. (they will say that they are not but they are.
You will then have to get through the UPS boundary, which isn't easy and will also depend on the school that you are in.

Not all HoDs hit that level either.

So ideally you are looking at SLT. and you would be very lucky to get that without moving schools. Any other statement I give on that will upset some people.

You shoukd get some increments for your industrial experience, depends on the institutions pay policy. Where I worked we had 1 increment for 3 years relevant experience, 1 increment for a good degree 2:2 or above, 1 increment per year of qualified teaching ... so you could easily be looking at £40k to start. Are you sure as you'd likely have b) and perhaps c) also. You'd have to get qualified first also.

I’m always astounded by how crap teaching wages are in England! I’m a primary school teacher in Scotland with zero extra responsibilities, I’m in my 5th year of teaching post probation year and earn over £50,000..

What about lecturing in a university? At least they'd be more invested in your subject and b you'd get more job satisfaction. Teaching is not an easy job in a school, not one I'd go into at 45! Im looking to get out by 50, 55 at latest!

Nooooooo.

This is interesting. I'm not sure what would count as relevant experience, how could I find out? Not sure putting all the intimate details of my career to date on mumsnet is a good idea!

Given I've been leading data science teams (and been a technical practitioner myself) for years I've got a lot of experience with maths and also computer science, but my passion in science. In theory I'd hope my wrist experience is valuable to a school, but how that translates into any actual monetary value it's a different matter.

I have a 1st from a top tier university, and my PhD is from the same institution so my academic "quality" is well evidenced.

And in all honesty, bracing myself for some ridicule after saying this but I think I'd be exceptionally good! My hobby teaching involves a lot of crowd control and I'm by far the best volunteer coach in the club - the big boss often says things to me. However they're small ish classes of kids who generally want to be there.

I can't imagine me, as an average height woman, trying to control a class full of disengaged and potentially angry disruptive 15 year old boys. In my minds eye I'd be teaching a class ful on at least semi engaged bright children who listen.

I've got two good friends who have left secondary teaching in the last couple of years, one was a chemistry teacher in a very nice private girls school a 10 minute walk from her house but the stress of that was driving her mad. I'm not sure why i think I would survive where she couldn't. The other a maths teacher in a London state comp and i don't think he had the same level of stress and long hours tbh, but he's a much more chilled out person generally than she is. I can't quite figure out who I'm closer to

Tbh I'll probably just get another job like my current one elsewhere as i do enjoy it, I think I've just been burnt by my current employer who don't understand how to do things properly and are unwilling to listen when I have tried to tell them.

But I am very much hearing from all your replies that teaching is likely to be the same but with substantially less pay plus entitled parents and misbehaving teens. Would the nice kids and gems of inspiration make up for all that?

As an ex-teacher, I strongly advise against it.
You will be taking a huge salary drop and 30 feral kids who aren’t interested in your subject is a different ballgame to a tutoring scenario.

And to those suggesting university, I don't think I'm anywhere near qualified /recent enough to lecture! I completed my PhD nearly 20 years ago so I'd have a lot to catch up on. I love the gcse syllabus, and a level would be fine. Being pushed and probed by brilliant young minds on the nuances of degree level chemistry sounds too taxing to be blunt.

No.

I think you just need to pop into academics' corner anyway to see why aiming to work in universities isn't a wise move.

I have no idea how someone a bit upthread said they earned 60k as HOD of a small department. This must be with something like extensive inner London top ups or something because , otherwise, that's cloud cuckoo land.

I am roughly on what you are aiming for and have been since my early 40s (after 20 years teaching) My salary since then has stagnated as there is no further way upwards without becoming SLT and that ship has sailed.

It is a huge drop in salary! You will never reach the heights of your current salary without being SLT and may not be able to afford part time work. However, an interesting alternative could be to teach part-time and tutor in the evenings. Science tutors will be in demand. Check the teacher pay scales to see what you could earn.

I love the actual teaching, but am highly fortunate to teach in a school with good behaviour. I hate all the other nonsense that goes alongside, including more and more late nights added to the calendar (permitted as still within directed time) and absolutely massive classes. You will certainly never be bored, but you will feel under appreciated sadly!

On the plus side, two of my friends re-trained as Sdience teachers after a few years in industry and seem to have no regrets. One is a member of SLT now.

It's impossible to say what would make up for what - there are too many variables. Having a couple of lovely, bright kids in otherwise difficult classes can be a source of frustration rather than joy when you have no choice but to spend most of your attention dealing with the behaviour of the rest of the class and knowing that your lovely, bright kids are getting a raw deal.

One thing is for sure - in your average (or even reasonably good) state comp, you absolutely can't expect to reliably have the kind of classes you said upthread that you are imagining (groups of at least reasonably engaged kids) unless you are one of the few teachers who are absolutely shit hot at classroom management, and even then, it takes a superhuman effort to maintain that all the time.

Even if the behaviour doesn't defeat you, the sheer workload might. These days I'm unwilling to deal with both. If I hadn't managed to get a ft job at age 50 in a school with excellent behaviour, I would certainly have quit teaching.

Just regarding what another poster said about being better paid in an independent school. This may not be the case. In my experience many pay less than state and also do not have to offer the good pension.

I love teaching, but money wise I regret it. I tutor evenings and weekends to top up my salary. You would need to rise pretty high up into senior leadership to meet anything like your current salary which will be tricky without experience. Head of dept would pay way less than this.

I really enjoy my day to day but it is massively school dependent. Academisation is ruining the job in my opinion. And if you get frustrated with being under resourced now teaching takes this to a whole new level!

The holidays are great though - and I will be honest and say I don't do a lot of work in them. I don't bring much work home either but then I don't have a management role.and have been teaching long enough to be happy winging it if necessary. I also realised long ago that schools (ime, could be different elsewhere) rarely follow up on things like marking policies and whatever random 'non negotiables' they bring in each term and demand for decent staff is so great that as long as you can look after a class competently and get the job done you tend to get left alone).

I am a teacher and I love it and do earn over 50k FTE, and I often come on these threads (under past usernames) encouraging people to retrain.

However, I am joining the chorus that you sound like you would be switching for the wrong reasons.

You will be much much more undervalued as an ECT. You'll be "nobody". No one will care about your valuable experience, qualifications, data science knowledge and expertise. You'll be patronised by 25yos who have better behaviour management than you. Your ego will take a Massive hit and it doesn't read like you're at all prepared for that. You'll also have to cope with huge organisational inefficiencies like terrible IT systems, minimal admin support, lots of people duplicating the same work etc etc and there's never any appetite to improve these issues.

And it's a total myth that teaching is "never boring". Of course it can be boring, like all jobs. Supervising tests, marking homework, repetitive parents' evenings, teaching my least favourite topics - all highly boring. True, most of the time it's not boring but not never.

Don't get me wrong, I do love it, and for me the benefits hugely outweigh the negatives. I love my subject. I've been doing the job long enough that I can rock up and not engage all my brain. I no longer take any work home except for report deadlines. I have a huge number of days off per year.

But honestly it doesn't sound like it's for you, op.

I’ve been a qualified teacher for 15 years. I took a break a few years ago to do something else for a couple of years and then to my surprise missed it so much that I came back.

I love teaching. I love working with teenagers. Yes, they can be a pain in the arse, but most of the time they are brilliant. I laugh so much every lesson. Teenagers have such a great sense of humour. And I love drawing out their ideas, supporting them to develop their skills, helping them to see that they can do it, and watching them grow in confidence. When a student who has been struggling gets it for the first time and produces a piece of work they never thought they could, and is so proud of themselves, it’s the best feeling in the world to see that light switch on inside of them.

I love building relationships with young people and supporting them through a pretty tough few years as they figure out who they are. I love seeing them grow up from tiny little 11 year olds to almost adults at 18, ready to go out into the world, and knowing that for some of them, I had a significant role in helping them on their way.

I also love teaching my subject - it’s endlessly creative and inspiring and I love sharing it with my students. Yes some of them hate English and don’t want to be there, but that’s the challenge and I really enjoy thinking creatively to find ways to engage those kids for whom it’s a ‘waste of time’.

My colleagues are great as well. Teachers are a fascinating bunch and we’re all in the trenches together so the mutual support is like nothing else.

Then there’s also the holidays - which are bliss.

I work in a small independent school as a classroom teacher with no leadership responsibilities (by choice) and earn almost £70k. I have a very good standard of living. This is in London though. Private schools elsewhere in the country will pay much less.

It is hard work, you will lose a lot of evenings and weekends, you will have a lot of pointless admin and it’s mentally, emotionally and physically exhausting. All of these things are true. But it’s also true from my perspective that it’s the best job in the world. You are truly never bored and you are helping to build the next generation. It’s a privilege to be a teacher - but only in the right school. I spent 3 years in state before getting out - the kids weren’t the problem actually, it was simply the workload was unsustainable. I had 35 kids in each class and the marking never ended. Moving to private has given me a better work life balance because I don’t have as many students, so less work to mark, and the holidays are longer, though I do work just as hard because the expectations are higher in terms of results, individual support for students and so on.

Teaching is a vocation and it takes a certain type of person. If you feel like it’s something you would love and you’re going in with your eyes open, then I would say go for it - just choose your school carefully.

Also if my starting salary is around £32K, given all my management and senior leadership, strategy etc experience, how might my salary be expected to progress?

They don't want "strategy experience" in schools. In fact they often actively resent it.

If you're serious about this plan then you need to be much more realistic about how much of a "nobody" you'll be regarded for several years. No one will care much about your previous experience and qualifications. You'll only get to progress if you demonstrate you can teach well, go with the flow overlooking organisational inefficiencies, be a yes-man to SLT, talk the talk with whatever current pedagogical movements are in vogue, etc... it's very different to getting promoted in other industries.

I would agree with this. And I think you need to be careful about going in as a new teacher with the attitude that you have all this management experience and should be rewarded for it.

To be a really good manager in teaching (and god knows there are very few of them in state schools, as most of them are about 25), you need to be an experienced teacher who can support your department with teaching issues and parent issues and behaviour issues and so on. If you don’t understand the job itself you won’t be able to manage people doing it. You might be good at the organisational and admin side of things but you will need to build experience at managing a classroom and parents and so on. You will also need time to just develop your teaching skills. The first three years are so hard from that respect. You won’t have time to even think about climbing the ladder.

You will be sought after in independent and academically selective state schools for your subject knowledge and PhD, for sure, but you’re not going to be catapulted into management because of it, so don’t go in with that expectation. You’ve got to do your time in the classroom first.

I don't think it's quite that no one will care. It's just that that isn't teaching which is the walk that needs to be walked. All the industry experience in the world doesn't automatically translate to skilled teaching, or school leadership.

We had a woman join my department as 2 ic who was greatly pre admired because of journalistic background. She was an awful leader , very bright but a weak teacher. She left teaching and is reportedly really happy and successful in a much better fit career in , I think, museums.

Bit of a cross post with Enid there!

Oh and Lord , yes, to the utterly pointless admin! And the data targets set and analysed by someone who has never set foot in a classroom.

I was bewildered by your post until I saw “I work in a small independent school”.

I work in a tiny independent AP setting, and I’m back to feeling the same way you do about my job.

Mainstream state school nearly killed me though. I’m still on the meds after that shitshow.

Then they are very foolish, as the pension is excellent.