Curious about colleague copying in manager in odd emails

[RememberBeKindWithKaren]

This isn't a major thing but I mentioned it to my husband yesterday, mildest man on the earth, and I had never thought of dealing with it how he's suggested.

So it concerns one manager where I work, ( who I get on with perfectly well most the time). His previous line manager was the Chief Exec and now its the Deputy Chief Exec. I've spotted this before with him. Most of the time when I have a question we write emails and reply just individually. But from time to time, part way through a conversation, if that's the right way of putting it, sometimes he will suddenly copy the manager in. And I'm left wondering -why does X or now Y, need to be involved with this, because I've not said anything very controversial. But he obviously feels he needs backing up somehow.

So, conveyed this to husband and he says if it happens to him, he'd reply purely to the original person. Never in my entire life have I considered that. ( Mind you , that person could then reply to my reply, again copying in his manager).

So anyway, who recognizes this email thing please? It's not making me question my whole existence in life but I am curious to know if other people do the replying just to original sender thing.

Many thanks

If it is further into a chain of queries perhaps he considers you are asking unnecessary questions about something he believes he has already answered. He may have mentioned this about you to his line report and they have asked him to flag up when you are unnecessarily taking time from his working day so they can monitor his and your use of time.

You could do what your DH suggests but as you say if he continues to copy in someone else they will see the chain of emails anyway. If your manager had chosen to cc someone else there will be a reason so why woukd it be for you to choose to cut them out. Just ask the manager why X is being brought into the conversation.

He’s either trying to show off to his manager about how good he is, or has no confidence in his own autonomy, or he’s trying to drop you in it.

Be careful. Personally I’d “reply all” when replying or there’s a possibility the more senior manager thinks you aren’t responding.

@Spirallingdownwards , thanks for this. I hadn't considered that he could be attempting to demonstrate to his manager I'm asking unnecessary questions. I wonder if that's what he's thinking. Suppose it could be that. I'll bear that in mind. Cheers.

@YanTanTetheraPetheraBumfitt thanks, yes I think I've always considered it the norm to do reply all and this is why I was so amazed when my DH says he doesn't always do it. And yes, I think his new manager probably is keeping watch on all the emails between us. So unless I'm missing anything crazy I think I will carry on with "reply all".

I wouldn’t email him unless necessary going forward. I think it’s shitty to copy people in unless you’re being a twat - could that be true? I would probably ask his manager tbh, I would say ‘I’ve noticed that sometimes xxx copies you in to our emails and I really just want to check that I’m not doing something that is considered impolite without realising.’ But then I stopped giving a fuck about whether people are offended a very long time ago.

I often cut out unnecessary CCs when I reply. Nobody likes getting irrelevant emails. But in this situation I wouldn't, as he's obviously trying to make some kind of point and it could look like you have something to hide if you remove the deputy CEO.

Yes unfortunately the only kind of people I've seen doing this are doing it because they believe they're flagging a performance issue, and I honestly believe sometimes it's done as a passive aggressive message to you.

If I ever have to add someone in to an email chain, I explain exactly why.

If I add someone else midway through an email chain, I'm doing it to flag a performance issue, though I will generally indicate this eg 'I'm ccing Simon here because as this issue seems to keep coming up, there's clearly some failure in communication between X and Y that you may be able to iron out between you so that I don't need to do this all over again.'

Does he just cc in the manager with no 'hey x linking you in to this for y reason'? That's really weird and would indicate a prior conversation between him and his manager about your emails. I think if you are having lots of emails back and forth on one question it's time to pick up the phone to resolve anyway.

@InWalksBarberalla yes I think there must have been a conversation between him and his new manager. I might have a word with her later. And yes , he won't say why he's copying her in, which I would always do if I were to add another person in, especially if it's not clear.
As I said, I get on very well with him generally. I think he might believe I've asked him for something I shouldnt need to see but I'm meeting him next week so I'll find out then if that's the case. Just odd that I've never known anyone randomly cc a manager in without explanation..hey-ho.

I work for a big corporate and people often Cc their managers and others into a chain part way. We have a lot of autonomy so generally it either means "I'm dealing with this but I want you to have visibility in case you want to step in" or "I think Ooo should have included you".

Unless their reply flags a specific reason they cc'd their manager I assume it's juat for info/visibility and don't worry about it other than "Oh God another cast of thousands email chain, we'll never get a decision now!"

It does sound odd. Your manager may copy his boss in if the emails support conversations he's had with his manager e.g. if you're pointing out the practicalities of a system problem, which he may have been raising privately with his manager for some time. In this instance he may have copied in his boss as a way of saying, 'see? It's not just me that thinks this.'

Sometimes I would do what your DH suggested, as every person I have ever known (senior role or not) hates being copied into shit they don't care about. They don't want to be 'kept apprised' of mundane crap. On the other hand, if I felt my manager was a dick who was deliberately trying to make me look bad, I'd reply all.

Sometimes i copy my manager in mid way through just so they are in the loop of what's going on and can add anything if they feel the need to.

I never mean it to drop anyone in it or flag any performance problems - its purely to ensure everyone's on the same page.

Depends on the culture of the organisation! Sometimes they are cc’ing your manager to make them aware (so not blindsiding the manager), sometimes due to ‘escalation’ to your manager. Sometimes some orgs are so big they cc everyone (which is the issue I’m having just now). It’s good to be aware there could be several reasons for it. But ‘let them’ and you decide what you want to do about it! I’ve also been in cultures where they want you to carefully target the audience who needs to be involved! I tend to do the latter but have also got into trouble for not keeping managers cced in! Depends how much of a micromanager or control freak they are!

I sometimes do this if I know it's something my boss would be particularly interested in / have a view on, or if the email chain is getting contentious / there is a disagreement and I know she would want to step in. She's unavailable for calls a lot, so this is the best way for me to make her aware if it's something that is moving quickly and can't wait for my next 121. It's quite common at my place of work where people are v busy and everyone's in different locations, it's not something anyone has ever commented on or taken issue with.

I’d ask.
“John, I notice sometimes when we are discussing something by email, mid way through you start copying Brian in.
I’d be grateful if you could help me understand when I should or should not be including him in the cc so I can get this right, as Im not aware of any change in procedure. Apologies Ive I’ve missed some communication or overlooked some guidance.
Appreciate your help Thanks”

I do this as there is things I think they need to know i dont see why the first instinct is to think of it as a negative thing, I wouldnt assume anything either way if my boss was included in emails sent to me

Actually I do think an innocent reason is if there is a share of role/workload/responsibilities to be fair 😊

Do you have bcc at work??

Or is it just cc?

Not sure why you would have any qualms about management chain having visibility of what's in an email dialogue, but leaving that aside I would see this as completely normal, just a way of keeping line management up to speed with what's going on. They may be having conversations about the same topic that you're not party to and they want to show that your view is included.

Lots of paranoia on MN!

I've never really given it a second thought to be honest. I copy my manager into lots of stuff, but we all get along pretty well so it's more just a case of keeping you in the loop of what I'm working on (she does what I do but higher up). She does it sometimes with her manager and its more a sense check / risk control thing, I don't see it as threatening, just sometimes the rabble might need a steer 😂

I know someone who does this and it's always, always because she's trying to drop you in it.

I think there are two plausible explanations. One is that he is trying to show off “look how good I am.” The other is that he perceives you to be a problem “I am having to escalate this to my manager” however I think it’s less likely to be this if his manager who is copied is not your manager. I think it would be your own manager being included if that was the case.

And a less likely explanation if this is a pattern, but one I have come across recently, is that he has leave planned in the near future and thinks his manager needs to be aware of something whilst he is on leave.

I don’t know that I agree with your husband that you shouldn’t “reply all”. If the other person doesn’t see a response, they might think that you haven’t responded. And do you really want the Chief Exec thinking that you don’t reply to emails?

I would never flag a performance issue like this. If I had reason to cc someone I’d make it clear in the email. I wonder what his line manager makes of him - I wouldn’t be very impressed.

I absolutely hate it when someone starts copying someone in half way through a conversation unless they specifically refer to doing so and say why. It’s extremely rude and is usually a way of pulling rank or trying to cover their arse or drop someone in it. I do think you need to address it rather than passively go with it.

I'm a manager and I ask my team to cc me in for this reason. I really dislike it when I am asked a question on an issue by my manager or another team and I don't know anything about it because it's only been an email thread between my team member and someone else.
I ask to be cc'd in so that I can be aware of the ask. I'll usually just skim the first one and not read the others unless I'm @'d in or someone asks me about it.
If it's a new manager, they might also just be getting to grips with workload and where everyone's time is spent and asked to be cc'd so they can get an idea of the type of questions that need answering and how much time it's taking up.
That said, in every work place I've been in, there have been people who will hugely waste the time of others by asking them things they could either work out for themselves or should already know or should be raising with their own manager.
It is possible that this is what theyre concerned about but its not the only explanation.