Tell me about your well paid job that fits around kids!

[Doughnut100]

Since before I had kids I planned to re-train as a psychotherapist. I've done part of the training (an MSc). Now I have cold feet and am worried that it's a vanity career, and that I won't be able to earn well after I'm trained. There are billions of therapists, many of whom are quacks, and clients can't tell them all apart. So even if I did a doctorate as I planned, I wouldn't necessarily be able to charge more than any other therapist. I'd love to be convinced out of this view but I have a bad feeling that I'm right.

I have savings ringfenced for re-training. I want to earn well, but I also want flexibility so I can be present for my kids who are currently 2 and 4. I want to do (at least some) school runs, give them dinner, hear about school, be free for them on the weekends.

I seriously considered clinical psychology but the doctorate is so intensive (ie more than full time hours) that I just don't think our family could function while I do it.

Does anyone have any suggestions of what to re-train as? Sorry if it seems like I'm asking for the moon on a stick, but I have money saved for the training, I'm willing to put in the work, and I'm pretty capable... so surely there must be some good options out there! Thank you in advance.

I work with a lot of freelancers/sole traders (not psychotherapist but professional services providers) and the key difference between the ones that do ok and the ones that earn really well is their mentality around managing their service as a business. If.you go into psychotherapy and treat it seriously as a business you will likely do better than the many out there who don't. By this I mean, investing in your website, marketing, scouting for opportunities, learning how to understand and manage your accounting software and your P&L so you aren't relying on an accountant to tell you if you're doing ok. Keeping a close eye on your cashflow. Getting a good small biz accountant who can help you plan your tax efficiently. Setting financial targets and monitoring them. Etc etc.

I know that's not about alternative careers, but to be honest I dont think there's anything you can retrain as and walk into high pay without a period of hard graft. So surely better to do the thing you actually really want to do, but put the time into careful planning and forecasting?

Nearly all highly paid careers require higher than average work hours or least in the first instance. There’s no quick fix, if there was we would all be doing it. Do a job you have passion for, your dc will be out of the child care stage in under 10 years so don’t base everything around that if it has long training!

Hmm set up an Only Fans? 😂

I’m in support of you OP as I too would like to optimise work and family life without 50hr weeks. Agree with @LarryUnderwoodthat hard graft needs to be put in before any new skill pays off, and that going that extra mile where others won’t (treating your offering as a business) will set you apart from most folk.

How much do you want/need to earn?

Thanks for your responses. I'm certainly no stranger to hard graft, but whereas before I was able to do 'hero hours' I'm now in the position that I can't compromise on my evenings and weekends because it's about my children's wellbeing. But the hard work, not a problem.

@minnienono yes exactly, if there was a quick fix we'd all be doing it😂- that would be great! So I'm not really looking for a quick fix but something I can realistically put the hours into training as, with good prospects once I've trained and got enough experience.

Things that you can do freelance (even if you have to start off in an organisation) such as physiotherapist, tax advisor, accountant, are the kind of things that have crossed my mind before.

@ShaunaSadeki I don't have a fixed amount in mind. My pre Covid pre children salary was about £50k but that was long hours so I guess I would aim for pro rata down from that. As @HennyPenny27 says it's about optimising work and family so that I feel well compensated without having to work long hours.

@LarryUnderwood thanks, that's good advice. I am a planner/organiser type so I would definitely hope to operate in that way.

There’s no point in investing in a doctorate as a psychotherapist unless you have a particular interest. You can make a good living as a practicing therapist in private practice if you have a good business brain and a decent network, the vast majority of my clients come through word of mouth, so you need to build your business.

It’s pretty unrealistic not to work evenings or weekends because many of your private clients will need out of hours appointments. You can decide though what your working hours look like. I have two evenings a week and a weekend morning, which gives some out of hours options and I work two working days a week. So 5 “clinics” if you like, but a variety of times.

Be clear in your advertising about your qualifications and experience, your modality and any specialism (ie areas you have extensive training in, not something you did a half day seminar on). It’s not easy work by any means, but it is good work if you are professional, know your role and have clear boundaries.

Good posts from @LarryUnderwood and @Jellycatspyjamas — though it definitely takes time to build a healthy client roster and have people coming to you by word of mouth. I’m not a therapist, but both my sister and one of my closest friends are, and through them I know a lot of therapists and those who train them in my home city. My sister moved away from private practice and into addiction counselling for the NHS equivalent, and my friend moved into couples therapy, having recognised a lack of provision locally. My own therapist (sought after, full client roster) is incredibly committed to training in her specialism, keeping up with new research etc.

Do you have a science degree?

The thing that struck me from your post was that you need evenings and weekends free. Unless you want to work for the NHS as a therapist, that is going to limit your income a fair bit. People like me (who are reasonably financially stable, but work full time) are the sort to spend money on therapy long term, but I can’t do that in work time or at lunch, I need to do it on an evening or a weekend because that’s sustainable.

Whenever I look for therapists the first thing I check is availability, and I don’t think I’ve come across one that doesn’t do evenings or weekends.

NHS would obviously funnel you into 9-5, but the reason I lost access to secondary care mental health support is because the trust gradually lost so many psychotherapists to private companies/self employment that the criteria to stay under their service is even tighter, and the best anyone is getting now is group therapy unless they’re an inpatient.

Not an undergraduate degree but I do have an MSc. Some subjects requiring a science degree allow you to do a conversion course, for example you can do a Psychology conversion MSc which allows you to do further training in Psychology without a science undergraduate degree. I'd be interested in other science areas that I could convert to.

Sorry, to clarify here, I don't need 100% of evenings and weekends. So doing a weekend morning and a couple of evenings, combined with a couple of normal days as @Jellycatspyjamas describes would be totally fine. I could still do some school runs and some dinners, and my partner could take over when I work. I just don't want to be out of the house for example from 8-6 every day, or unavailable at weekends very often.

Career or ‘life’ coach? Combines aspects of psychology / therapy…

I’m in the process of career changing and there are remarkably few (near me) who have the specialism/ focus to help me (40s, changing from a very idiosyncratic sector).

Perhaps it would be worth looking into organisations with a really good flexible and hybrid working policies near you. Then you can work FT/ as much as you want but still be around for school drop offs etc.

The only way to have a high paid job that is flexible around kids is to have that high paid job BEFORE you have the kids. Sorry.

Well, you may be right. I had a good job before but it can't be flexible. So I'm going to have a good go at finding one that is! I have time and resources. Personally I don't think it's going to be impossible.

Surely there must be some people out there who can say, yeah, I have a good job that fits with kids - hello? Are you out there !? :)

I'm an Occupational Therapist, NHS currently which works great as although pay not the best the security, flexibility and benefits are great. However several of my colleagues have gone into private practice, and/or case management and are doing very well. I think you do need the NHS experience first though...but OT has been an amazing career for me!

Thank you! I will look into this. I do have NHS experience as it happens.

Sure. Was just asking as I have a good job that fits around kids but it requires a life science degree. So thought I'd check before I recommended it 😁

I have a good job that fits around kids, and so do many of the women at my company. We work for a small business in the L&D sector. I'm in a very senior leadership role and earn well. The ethos is very much 'outcomes not hours' and we are mostly remote (fortnightly/monthly team meetings f2f) although I do have to be more flexible on this than others because of my position. L&D is quite female dominated so can be pretty family friendly if you get the right company. And small businesses often are more flexible because when they find a good hire they want to keep them (don't have the resources to hire and onboard for no good reason). But the benefits are generally not as good (sick pay etc is often statutory although there is often discretion used for serious illnesses).

I have always worked in small biz in L&D and only focused on progressing my career after I had kids. I was in a junior-ish role when I had DS1 (now 13) and I'm now in my second MD position. Amd my earnings have morenthan tripled in that time. BUT although I have always had flexibility around drops offs, school events, managing kids sickness etc, I have always, always put in the hours and more. And when I'm at work I'm v focused. I have at times had to sacrifice family time when there's been deadlines etc. And my DH is v supportive of my career and properly pulls his weight when it comes to choldcare, household stuff etc. There's no magic bullet I'm afraid!

Not me, but a friend is a personal trainer and is raking in the cash. £40 an hour and with so many people working from home and working flexibly these days she has plenty of demand.

You don’t even need a degree, just a personal trainer type qualification and she just does it from a summerhouse/ log cabin type building in her garden. She’s not particularly a fitness fanatic herself but is able to help other people get the results they want which is the main thing.

I’m a childminder, 4 full days and I earn around 60k, my kids don’t get me to themselves every tea time but at least I’m there.

I don’t think the DClinPsy is more than full time hours. I think it attracts people who can be very perfectionist and work more, but it’s not necessary (I certainly didn’t!). However, if you have money saved, could you do the counselling psych doctorate, part time? I’m a clin psych and I work as an expert witness. Self employed, and I work around my ASD child. Just filed my tax return and made 137k last year (but I worked a lot…just pointing out that you can eventually make decent money on your own terms)

I'm iterested to hear what it is anyway!

Thanks, this is so useful to know. The course I would have to do is at Bath Uni and in the alternative handbook the students say there is not enough study time and they end up having to study on weekends. Plus there would be an hour's commute to Bath, and I don't know how flexible the placements would be, so overall it seems like it adds up to more than full time. What were your placements like? Did you study before you had your child?

Good point about the part time counselling psych doctorate. I had discounted it simply because it was so expensive compared to doing the DClinPsy, and then kind of forgotten about it as an option. When I compare the money it makes me cringe - it's going to cost me £125k including living expenses and therapy, which is double what I have saved. But maybe I just have to bite the bullet and do that... At least I'll be a chartered psychologist at the end and will eventually earn good money!