Requirement to inform manager if interviewing for internal roles

[NominatedNameOfTheDay]

If your job has a requirement to inform your line manager when you’re interviewing for an internal role… do you actually do it?

I don’t have the best relationship with my manager, she can be quite abrasive and hostile and I would honestly just rather not have the conversation without knowing if I’ve been offered the role.

or if you’re a recruiter in an organisation like this, is there any point at which you would actually tell the candidates’ LM before the point of a job offer?

Ours asks if we have told our line manager and has a preference for people to tell their manager. I have done it when applying for managers I get on with, I have done it when I get an interview for managers I have a poorer working relationship with. However if it is required by your company you might just need to do it

My manager would get a notification in the system that I applied, so I have no choice.

I would just send an email telling them you are applying for the role.

Every place I’ve ever been at (over decades) has it as policy. If you don’t abide by the policy, you wouldn’t get offered a job if the current manager flagged they knew nothing about it when they are contacted about logistics/timing of transfer to new role.

I did have one person not abide by this I wanted to offer the role to, and given their manager was a completely incompetent cunt (which is why they were desperate to move), we just said he had been informed and was lying by denying it. He was shuffled out the door a few months later due to his utter incompetence. The person hired went on to do an impeccable job for over a decade until they moved on, so no regrets, the ends justified the means.

Thanks for the comment, that’s useful. I will double check the policy and I guess just tell her.

Although from what you’ve said it still sounds like the manager would only be notified if the offer is made, so presumably I would have a bit of time between the offer being made, taking some time to think about it and accepting it (telling my LM at this point), and then the transition taking place.

Is this Civil Service by any chance? Only asking as some directorates have introduced this because of issues filling roles when people leave at short notice - which means the team they leave behind is under-resourced. There's a lot of movement ATM for some odd reason!

I would tread carefully about hiding it from your LM. There is usually a very good reason for this to be asked, and in a worst case scenario you could end up with a very angry new manager if you lie to them before you've even started...

Yep this is true. I will just tell her.

I was going to ask if civil service too!
I think the norm is to tell your LM. CS to me seems keen to support people moving where possible and if a LM was to give less favourable treatment as a result of an internal application it would not be good for that LM.

I agree with telling her, having been in the position of being blindsided by one of my team recently that they'd been offered a new role and they'd accepted which meant I had less than a month to prepare for handovers and approvals to recruit into that position from above.

From my perspective I'd rather know for resource planning, especially in an area which attracts a lot of attention from ministers etc., and there are (as everywhere in the CS to be honest) huge amounts of pressure to do more with less.

Has fuck all to do with the recruiting manager, why would they be angry?

They're getting the candidate they want/need/interviewed for.

The backfill issue is the OP's current managers issue.

Also, applying on CS jobs means that your manager would NOT be informed or notified - and if you look at the guidance, nearly all depts say you should inform your manager - there is nothing in ink that punishes a person for not doing so.

If that was the case, no one would apply for jobs, EOIs or get promoted.

People are deluded if they think that there is some religious obligation to tell your manager that you are applying for a new role - there isnt. Its simply considered goodwill if you DO tell them, but you wont be hung out to dry if you dont.

🙄

@HelplessSoul well the current line manager, if it is an internal move (i.e. within department), can refuse to release people in good time. I've known people be held back for months based on 'business need.'

I would be absolutely furious if I have specified that the current LM had to know (because the expectation would be that if the LM knew, the release would be quicker), and the person lied and the LM refuse to release them for months or made things difficult. That then impacts my business area and it would all be because my new hire wouldn't follow a simple request. It's likely this current hiring manager has experienced this in the past and is looking to avoid it.

Then again, I have also known people where the LM has refused to release people for EOIs or loans - because again they often require current LM agreement and they haven't been informed so have refused to give it on business need and HRBP have backed them.

It's like when you advertise a job saying people must have X security clearance, and then it turns out they don't. Not a good way to start a job. You're either going to be labelled a liar, or incompetent.

similar as pp our internal application system send an automatic message to the line manager - and they need to approve.

the system is a right pain in the a... but that's a different story

If you have booked annual leave to attend the interview, you might get away without telling them but if you expect to just leave your current task to do the interview without warning your current LM, you are asking for issues. It will look like you are just AWOL

So many wrong things to unpack.

As long as a candidate is not under any discplinary procedures, they cannot be stopped on a permanent level move to another Govt dept, nor can they be stopped on temporary / permanent promotion, either within their Govt dept or another Govt dept.

Business need is not applicable here.

And refusing to release a candidate that has secured a job elsewhere would open up a line manager to a grievance that they would lose. I have seen it happen more than a dozen times where a line manager has had their ass handed to them for stupid things like that.

In short, a line manager cannot stop or prolong/delay a person moving on a permanent basis.

EOIs/loans are a different kettle of fish. Again, on level transfer, they can be blocked, but not on promotion - whether in the same or another Govt dept as long as the candidate has no disciplinary warnings hanging over them.

Security clearance issues are entirely different - anyone wilfully lying about that deserves rapped knuckles.

If I got an application from an internal candidate I would always message the person they report to before offering an interview

Completely underhand and unnecessary.

Just as well it doesnt happen in the Civil Service, last time I checked anyway....

I think you are being quite naive about how the Civil Service operates tbh @HelplessSoul Perhaps in your ideal world it would operate like that, but in practice it really doesn't.

On this:
In short, a line manager cannot stop or prolong/delay a person moving on a permanent basis.

We have 100% stopped people moving on, within the timeframe the hiring manger requested, within the department - up to, and including, 3 month delays in my own directorate. And we have had the same in reverse, again within the department.

Not every department operates the way you are talking about. Some have fixed tours and you absolutely cannot, under any circumstances, 'short tour.'

It does happen in the civil service. This is just been professional and is what happens all the time

Seems its only your dept that has a messed up view of things then.

No wonder you are stuck there if thats how they operate!

Being underhand is professional?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight-o. SMH 🤦‍♂️

I have never made a job offer to an internal candidate without first speaking to their line manager to get feedback. Generally speaking I’d do that before even interviewing them. So if that’s the first they’ve heard of it and they react badly it’s unlikely to go in your favour.

Lol, no one ( well no one else) would see this as underhand and in a lot of company's you need your managers sign off to apply internally.

I could comment on your business attitude I'm just not. Hope you have a successful career

I've never, ever seen or heard of a vacancy holder in the CS contacting an applicants manager and then offering an interview.

Hardly in keeping with the CS code of impartiality, is it?