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Toxic situation, I am lost

53 replies

Middleware · 16/06/2025 15:59

Hi, our company has recently been taken over and all the management chain above me have been replaced with new people apart from my direct line manager who has been significantly demoted, and by inference, so have I. My job role has gone from being varied and influential and reduced to what was less than half of my role before, although I am very capable in this role and have more than enough to do! My performance reviews have always been excellent and I am well paid in a niche role.

Since the takeover it has been a very chaotic environment to work in with many redundancies and the team on which I work have been very much left to trying to keep things going and firefighting whilst also picking up the slack from losing literally all our colleagues who would previously ’fed’ us work. We have done our best but there are big problems with the company

it has been an extremely difficult working environment for the last 18 months but we have done our best.

About a month ago I was asked by a director, ‘Anna’, to get involved in a project, the first step of which was to briefly meet with other directors and collate their priorities. This is much more akin to my previous job role and I was excited and looking forward to helping and hopefully removing some of the chaos so we as a team could focus. This was an urgent project and by I was asked to move quickly with minimal direction to get this underway.

I spoke to 3 of the directors on individual calls and it all went well.

then I had a call with another 2 directors, let’s call them Brenda and Charles. Charles is in my direct reporting line, Brenda isn’t.

I had not met Brenda so I introduced myself and very briefly outlined my history with the company and said what I was hoping to achieve with this call. As soon as I said what team I was in Brenda started ranting. For context, she is fairly new to the business and orchestrated the exit of my experienced colleagues.

I was told we, as a team, were all meeting up all the time badmouthing the company to customers and leaking confidential information to colleagues who have been made redundant. She said she’d worked with another awful team and she’d heard we were even worse. On the call I said I was sorry, but I didn’t know what she was talking about, but she carried on in a similar vein for about 5 minutes with various accusations about my team. This isn’t true, I have had no contact with my ex colleagues other than going to their leaving do’s.

Following the call, Charles called me to say I was no longer needed on the project. I questioned why he was telling me this, not Anna, and asked if this was down to the perception of my team by Brenda and quoted back some of what she said. And this is the killer, he denied she’d said anything, he literally said it didn’t happen.

He was in the call, he knows he’s lying and he knows I know he’s lying.

My mental health, trust in the company and confidence in my work is now at rock bottom. I don’t want to leave at the moment as I have a lot going on outside of work, I am old, I usually enjoy my job, it is flexible and I am well paid.

Normal me would ask Anna for feedback, but I think that will be seen as trouble making. I feel that if this is how we are perceived then they will try and remove me or make my working life so unbearable that I’ll leave. I wish I had recorded the call - Brenda was so unreasonable that I would have raised a grievance, but if I do they will deny it happened.

What on earth can I do? I feel sick every day coming to work, I am not sleeping, this is going round and round in my head and I often find myself crying or panicking at my desk. Go off sick? Go to HR? Go to Anna? Or just battle on?

OP posts:
Eyesopenwideawake · 16/06/2025 16:38

Would you have a case for constructive dismissal?

Gingerbis · 16/06/2025 16:38

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:36

I have of course spoken to my LM about this. He is aware that the team are viewed badly (himself included), but very much feels we are being scapegoated. He is battling this daily. He is at a loss on what to do about it.

it’s doing me good to hear other viewpoints, thank you.

So the team is viewed badly

so Brenda was right?

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:42

Eyesopenwideawake · 16/06/2025 16:38

Would you have a case for constructive dismissal?

I don’t know. I don’t have much of an appetite to go to war with them…I want to carry on doing a good job! I have never had anything like this at work before! I am loathe to resign without a settlement though, I have been here a long time and the job market is insecure at the moment. I am the breadwinner for my family and it’s a risk I am uncomfortable with taking. Particularly when my confidence is at rock bottom.

OP posts:
Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:45

Gingerbis · 16/06/2025 16:38

So the team is viewed badly

so Brenda was right?

The team is viewed badly by some areas, but very well by other departments. Until recent changes we were seen as one of the leading teams in the business. There has been a lot of change, and a lot of new starters - we are seen as dinosaurs by some of the new people. I am not in disagreement that the company needed a bit of an overhaul and until this I thought I was doing exactly what they wanted us to do

OP posts:
DiscoBob · 16/06/2025 16:46

Brenda sounds utterly demented?! Even if your team really were underperforming or some of them did talk to ex colleagues, how would she know this and why start ranting about it?

That's so unprofessional and bizarre. She should not make accusations about people without proof. And now this other bloke alleging it didn't happen?!

I hope and pray the call was recorded. Record all calls with them in future to try and get an admission of what she said.

I think definitely speak to Anna. I mean you have to speak to someone about what Brenda said.

If you're feeling brave could you confront Brenda directly. In a professional way by email. Quoting what she said and asking her to clarify what she wants done about it. That would make her guilty of saying it if she even responds to the email?

It sounds awful anyway. I presume you are job seeking?

Eyesopenwideawake · 16/06/2025 16:46

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:42

I don’t know. I don’t have much of an appetite to go to war with them…I want to carry on doing a good job! I have never had anything like this at work before! I am loathe to resign without a settlement though, I have been here a long time and the job market is insecure at the moment. I am the breadwinner for my family and it’s a risk I am uncomfortable with taking. Particularly when my confidence is at rock bottom.

Understood, but forewarned is forearmed. Worth having an exploratory conversation with an employment lawyer to find out either way. If you DO have a good case it will help your confidence.

Avidreader12 · 16/06/2025 16:49

Focus on your usual job. Don’t feel like you have to react to their comments as you said you have no appetite to take it further and unlikely any good would come from it. Yes your team might be for the chop later down the line but maybe not. The business has been restructuring. Business decisions at high management level are not usually personal. If you don’t think your usual day to day job that is a good fit for you now you have been demoted then look for a different job but don’t muddy the waters by using Brenda’s perception of your team as a reason to leave when it’s not clear cut.

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:53

DiscoBob · 16/06/2025 16:46

Brenda sounds utterly demented?! Even if your team really were underperforming or some of them did talk to ex colleagues, how would she know this and why start ranting about it?

That's so unprofessional and bizarre. She should not make accusations about people without proof. And now this other bloke alleging it didn't happen?!

I hope and pray the call was recorded. Record all calls with them in future to try and get an admission of what she said.

I think definitely speak to Anna. I mean you have to speak to someone about what Brenda said.

If you're feeling brave could you confront Brenda directly. In a professional way by email. Quoting what she said and asking her to clarify what she wants done about it. That would make her guilty of saying it if she even responds to the email?

It sounds awful anyway. I presume you are job seeking?

I have had an email to Anna sitting in drafts for 2 weeks. But I know she has a lot on her plate. And I don’t want to be seen as being another problem by raising my concerns. I know she won’t (can’t) take my side, and she wasn’t on the call. So I don’t really know how to word it. I would like it to be a positive constructive email, whilst also recoding that this is affecting my mental state at work.

OP posts:
Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:57

DiscoBob · 16/06/2025 16:46

Brenda sounds utterly demented?! Even if your team really were underperforming or some of them did talk to ex colleagues, how would she know this and why start ranting about it?

That's so unprofessional and bizarre. She should not make accusations about people without proof. And now this other bloke alleging it didn't happen?!

I hope and pray the call was recorded. Record all calls with them in future to try and get an admission of what she said.

I think definitely speak to Anna. I mean you have to speak to someone about what Brenda said.

If you're feeling brave could you confront Brenda directly. In a professional way by email. Quoting what she said and asking her to clarify what she wants done about it. That would make her guilty of saying it if she even responds to the email?

It sounds awful anyway. I presume you are job seeking?

I didn’t record the call. I am kicking myself for that because even I can’t actually believe what she was saying. I wrote some of it down at the time and send a summary to my LM. She came across as totally deranged. I’m sure she’s under pressure and was just kicking off but I feel I have undeservedly been caught in the crossfire.

OP posts:
DiscoBob · 16/06/2025 16:58

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:53

I have had an email to Anna sitting in drafts for 2 weeks. But I know she has a lot on her plate. And I don’t want to be seen as being another problem by raising my concerns. I know she won’t (can’t) take my side, and she wasn’t on the call. So I don’t really know how to word it. I would like it to be a positive constructive email, whilst also recoding that this is affecting my mental state at work.

I think you must tell her. It's part of her job if she's your line manager? (Sorry actually I'm not sure if she is or not? But your ally at least?)

But it's just bizarre that the other guy is alleging Brenda's outburst didn't happen. Surely if your team is in as bad shape as she claimed something needs to be actioned following the things she alleged?
Not just silently sidelining you.
I'm guessing HR either don't exist or haven't been helpful?

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:59

Eyesopenwideawake · 16/06/2025 16:46

Understood, but forewarned is forearmed. Worth having an exploratory conversation with an employment lawyer to find out either way. If you DO have a good case it will help your confidence.

I feel I have to try and resolve this internally before talking to a lawyer. But maybe you’re right, thank you

OP posts:
SoScarletItWas · 16/06/2025 17:03

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:26

My complaint would be that Brenda was saying things about me and my team which are damaging and untrue, and then they denied it was said.

You don’t know if the things about your ex-team colleagues is true. They may well be meeting up and bad mouthing the company. They’d have a shared bad experience and they probably are talking about it together.

All you can do is stay out of that and, if you get an opportunity, make sure the Brendas and Annas know you’re not in touch with them so not part of any gossip.

Over time you will prove you’re doing a good job and not scarred by the recent changes.

I feel for you though, it sounds no fun.

HappiestSleeping · 16/06/2025 17:13

@Middleware I have been both sides of this coin. I have been in your position and in the position of the new team of a purchased company.

There are many permutations. The new regime may think they're better and that you're all crap and they're wrong. Or they think they're better and you're all crap and they're right.

In my experience the purchasing company employees usually think that, and it doesn't actually matter as they hold all the cards.

Your choices are:

  1. Hope and wait for redundancy.
  2. Hope and wait for them to see sense and leave.
  3. You look for another job.

2 is not likely, so my money is on either 1 or 3. Since it is easier to get a job from a job, I would go for 3.

It sucks, but it is just business.

Middleware · 16/06/2025 17:15

DiscoBob · 16/06/2025 16:58

I think you must tell her. It's part of her job if she's your line manager? (Sorry actually I'm not sure if she is or not? But your ally at least?)

But it's just bizarre that the other guy is alleging Brenda's outburst didn't happen. Surely if your team is in as bad shape as she claimed something needs to be actioned following the things she alleged?
Not just silently sidelining you.
I'm guessing HR either don't exist or haven't been helpful?

Edited

Anna is not my LM. I haven’t been to what’s left of our HR either because again, I’m not sure what to say and I’d really like to resolve this without escalation if possible. I would just like to get my positive outlook back… I have always loved my job and my team, and I am very distressed that this is how we are apparently viewed. Ideally I’ll just let it all go and get on with my job, but I am now watching my back all the time and second guessing what will happen next. It does not feel like a healthy work environment.

OP posts:
Gingerbis · 16/06/2025 17:46

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:45

The team is viewed badly by some areas, but very well by other departments. Until recent changes we were seen as one of the leading teams in the business. There has been a lot of change, and a lot of new starters - we are seen as dinosaurs by some of the new people. I am not in disagreement that the company needed a bit of an overhaul and until this I thought I was doing exactly what they wanted us to do

So Brenda is not alone in her view
So presumably there will be others very much of the same view
so you presumably think it’s not just Brenda making up shit, it’s lots of others too?

either way op, I wouldn’t be shaking the tree if I were you. It sounds like it could back for rather spectacularly on you

Gingerbis · 16/06/2025 17:48

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:57

I didn’t record the call. I am kicking myself for that because even I can’t actually believe what she was saying. I wrote some of it down at the time and send a summary to my LM. She came across as totally deranged. I’m sure she’s under pressure and was just kicking off but I feel I have undeservedly been caught in the crossfire.

But even if you do prove she said this

a) that’s entirely her prerogative
b) she’s far from alone in that view!

HappiestSleeping · 16/06/2025 17:58

Middleware · 16/06/2025 17:15

Anna is not my LM. I haven’t been to what’s left of our HR either because again, I’m not sure what to say and I’d really like to resolve this without escalation if possible. I would just like to get my positive outlook back… I have always loved my job and my team, and I am very distressed that this is how we are apparently viewed. Ideally I’ll just let it all go and get on with my job, but I am now watching my back all the time and second guessing what will happen next. It does not feel like a healthy work environment.

You're focusing on all the wrong things. It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong. They hold all the cards.

If you are watching your back in a toxic environment, the only card you hold is your resignation letter.

Middleware · 16/06/2025 18:52

This has been a really useful exercise, thank you for your varied replies.

I am not at all interested in ‘proving’ what she said. I would have appreciated a proper conversation about it rather than ranting then denying it. Then we could work together properly to address it. We still could! But it’s not going to happen. And yes, of course they hold all the cards.

I imagine she’s a little embarrassed tbh. And at least I know where I stand now 😂

This thread has helped me reframe the episode and I think that will benefit my mental health.

OP posts:
Gingerbis · 16/06/2025 18:56

Why would she be a little embarrassed?

What I don’t get is how other departments think poorly of your team, and you seem to be channeling all your wrath on to this director

have you sought out proper conversations with the heads of the departments you know to think badly of your dept?

Gettingbysomehow · 16/06/2025 21:33

I've had work go toxic a couple of times and the only solution is to leave, so I immediately started looking for another job and I'm much happier now. Great job, good money and utilising all my skills. I have no time for this. It's time to plan your exit.

BoilingHotand50something · 16/06/2025 21:42

OP, I really feel for you and whilst not quite as dramatic, after a long career and a particularly successful couple of years, we have had a new regime arrive and I am slowly but surely being sidelined. I am old and well paid and do not want to leave without a redundancy package. But I am really struggling. Glad this thread has helped you. Be interested to know what you end up doing.

Middleware · 16/06/2025 22:34

BoilingHotand50something · 16/06/2025 21:42

OP, I really feel for you and whilst not quite as dramatic, after a long career and a particularly successful couple of years, we have had a new regime arrive and I am slowly but surely being sidelined. I am old and well paid and do not want to leave without a redundancy package. But I am really struggling. Glad this thread has helped you. Be interested to know what you end up doing.

Thanks, @BoilingHotand50something, there’s a lot of it around.

OP posts:
ConcernedOfClapham · 17/06/2025 05:29

Middleware · 16/06/2025 16:30

I am very much focusing on my day job, working hard and I am very good at it. I am trying not to let it bother me but it has blown my confidence. I don’t know how to behave if that’s how we’re thought of but no one will directly address it. I don’t know where all this has come from. I would appreciate a mature conversation about it all.

You won’t get one.

It sounds like you’re working in an episode of Black Mirror; a ‘big company taken over by an even bigger company’ is par for the course these days, and leaves you with little recourse.

A wise old friend (then retired, now sadly no longer with us) once advised me, when I was involved in a work dispute in which HR was prominent (thankfully in a role I have since left) “In my day, we were known as ‘personnel’ or ‘staff’; once you become a ‘resource’, you start to lose your basic humanity”.

You say you’re not ready to leave yet, so the only advice I can give is grit your teeth, get your head down, and do whatever you need to do to get through the day. It’s not ideal, but is increasingly where we’re at now.

I’m sorry I couldn’t be of any more help.

Seymourscat · 17/06/2025 05:42

HappiestSleeping · 16/06/2025 17:58

You're focusing on all the wrong things. It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong. They hold all the cards.

If you are watching your back in a toxic environment, the only card you hold is your resignation letter.

Edited

Totally this. You don’t have the power to take them on. Head down and get on with the job. It’s all happening at levels above you and you have no control over it.

wait for a good redundancy package or leave for a new job. Sounds a mess.

dogcatkitten · 17/06/2025 05:48

If she says anything, Brenda may say she was giving some constructive criticism of your team and you reacted in an unfortunate way, such that she lost confidence in you leading the proposed project. It seems to have been a non-event for Charles or that's his story. I would be looking for another job.