4 days for 85% pay or similar

[dancingqueen345]

Hello

Just wondering if anyone has successfully negotiated a 4 day working week but not taking a full 1/5 drop in salary? If so, how did the conversation go and any tips?

I’m due to return to work in a couple of weeks to an incredibly stressful job that would frequently have me working into the evenings and now with a 2.5year old and a 7 month old I just really feel I want some balance, but I would struggle taking a 20% salary drop. I also know there would still be some late nights, so whilst I may be working 4 days on paper, the hours would be more.

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

You can’t really have it both ways - I don’t see many employers agreeing to this

How would that look/feel to full time workers?

If you often work above your hours anyway can you not just request condensed hours over 4 days?

@MayflyoffI wouldn’t expect HR to be sharing my compensation details with colleagues. But even if they were, how would they know that my 100% salary just wasn’t higher?

Ask for 4.5 days part time, compressed into 4 days working hours

@LeedsZebra90I’ve thought about asking for compressed hours but I don’t like the idea of 4 days a week barely getting any time with my kids between them getting back from nursery and going to bed

@SatsumaCatokay yes I like that idea, thank you

Can you compress your hours? Full time at my organisation is 35 hours and I do them over 4 days. I take half an hour for lunch so I actually don’t feel like I’m doing an overly long day (8am-5-15pm).

Do you mean contacted 0.9 FTE? So a 34 hour week (assuming 37.5 is full time), or 8.5h working a day (eg 8-6 with 30 min lunch) That would be something work asking requesting. It might not be granted, but you could ask.

You're effectively asking for a pay rise, and to be paid more than colleagues, and you'd need to pitch it as such. Do you have an argument for this based on experience, performance or length of service? That's the angle you'd need to go from.

I was very worried that I would end up working full-time for part-time pay. My company converts all part-time employees to hourly. We still earn our same salary equivalent, but if we work extra hours over our schedule, we get paid for them.

I’m not sure I would have taken the reduced hours offer without that pay structure.

this works from a budget perspective because all our work is on billable hours

My brother works 4 condensed days with I think 1-2 from home each week so he’s actually not missed much with his two. Can you wfh a day or two to minimise not seeing the kids?

His wife works 4 days a week and one Saturday a month (I think!) at head office for a supermarket as a buyer so I don’t think either of them are salary impacted. They each have their own day off with their little ones which is nice for bonding with solo days out and also saved on nursery fees. ☺️

I’d be looking for the same after Mat leave but depends on your role, industry etc so that might be helpful. I think if you’re someone the business relies on and can’t afford to lose OR there’s a team around you that means you could work less hours both could work in your favour.

I’m sole counsel and think my company in 2-3 years would let me do condensed if I asked. I’d feel the same! Sad women have to pre-plan these things career wise….

@Snowstorm25 That sounds totally doable, I’ve just checked my contract and it’s silent on what is considered full time
hours, it just says that it is based around ‘core hours’ but expected to work additional hours as may be required. I can email HR though and ask them to confirm what would be considered full time though.

At one point I did a 9 day fortnight at 90% pay- this was pre covid and I did nursery drop off and pickup and was in the office 4-5 days a week, but had every other Friday off. After homeschool chaos and when things were more settled but still wfh I spoke to my boss and said I was basically doing full time and could I compress my hours and keep the same 9 days- I shared a proposal for my working hours (as I had done before when DD started school as they weren't quite evenly spread because of various childcare things) and he was fine with it, but equally said not to make a big deal about the arrangement to colleagues.
I would say it would totally depend on your boss but definitely worth finding a way of doing some form of compressed hours and ait down with a spreadsheet and work out what's possible!

@BrucesToothno my OP was meaning 0.8 FTE but at 85% of my full salary (or higher - I was hoping to hear some slightly more positive stories than I have gotten!)

@Hononyes, effectively, however it doesn’t financially impact on their bottom line (well, it would positively as they’re still paying me less) but they still likely get the same output from me.

Have you calculated your tax on four days a week? Often dropping a day doesn't actually lose you 20% of the income because you might lose less in tax / be eligible for child benefit etc. Also consider whether dh can reduce a day so that you only need three days childcare like @brunettenorthern91 brother.

You might find your take home works out like that. I went from 4 to 5 days and between tax, NI and especially student loans repayment, it doesn't work out as 1/4 extra. Just thinking of the pension!

@brunettenorthern91 yes I already wfh 2 days a week and before considering this request to drop to 4 days I was already planning on asking to work 3 days from home instead. I’m so glad it’s working out for your B and SIL, it’s nice to hear positive stories!

It’s so sad that we have to try and pre-plan these things. I feel like I’ve gone from being a couple of years away from the C-suite to now suddenly having 2 small children and feeling like all the years of graft were for nothing because I’m going to be brushed aside for not wanting 5 days/office based!

Thanks @AsparagusGirl- a 9 day compressed fortnight is definitely something I would consider too.

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor no I’ve not done any proper calcs yet but I will be getting the spreadsheets out tomorrow and modelling some of the suggestions.

DH is definitely open to dropping a day too but he’s in a new job and doesn’t feel comfortable requesting it yet, but it’s definitely on the cards for later in the year.

Anywhere I have worked that offers reduced hours the salaries have been reduced pro-rata. However recently there has been more recognition for those on p/t hours that if they work additional hours they have been able to take them back as flex and with some ability to wfh it has been easier to do 90% over 4 days or 9 day fortnight without having to do excessively long days.

I do agree that employers probably receive the equivalent of full-time productivity from staff who work 90% or 80% of full-time and get to pay less. But unless you work for an employer that runs a 4 day week for full-time pay offer that is likely the best you can get.

I do 5 days in 4. I originally did 4.5 days in 4 but I kept doing excess hours and building up time owed so work agreed to switch me up to 100% and I'll move back down in the imaginary world where my time owed balance doesn't just keep getting larger and larger...

Side convo- Don’t despair over the next step to C-Suite!!!

options:

1. you work 4 days for a a few years then there’s people who move on unexpectedly in a year or two and open a role up or are removed from being “ahead of you” by doing so. 2) You can 100% be C-Suite working 4 days…. I had HOD working 2 days before in a law firm from Amsterdam, it can be done #GirlBoss. Don’t kill yourself over it, but quality over quantity!
2. happily play the “we have no women in leadership” card if it’s true. Our last female C Suite member has just left and the previous General Counsel was C Suite (a man) that I replaced. When I have been with my company another year or so, I’ll be highlighting the gender disparity and need for C Suite women 👀😂 - don’t be afraid to play that card!
3. I hate to say it - you climb quicker if you move…. If you work in a competitive industry/profession, moving then returning or moving upwards into a C-suite role elsewhere may be easier and you’ll likely get a salary benefit from it! For example, my SIL may be a buyer at a supermarket (and was previously at another of the big 4 supermarkets) but I’d suggest she move to a supplier business to get a step up role, then moves back customer side to secure the step up there if there’s a similar path you could take?

Alternatively…. You may realise the closer you get to C-Suite in the next year or two while you’re working 4 days, that the huge additional stress of being up there just isn’t worth it until your kids are a little older (say young secondary age) Life is about working to live not living to work so don’t kill yourself over work - she says as a workaholic herself. 😂

My dad was a Finance Director for years and still works as a Financial Controller but loves that the emergency decision making no longer sits with him (plus the meetings those come with!) and the out of hours calls. I am sending good career vibes to you! ✨✨

I used to do did 4 days and 4 hours condensed into 4 days, 90% salary. It worked well but as children got older the extra hour contractually being fixed at the end of the day gets tricker to balance with home life, when really many people that work extra in the evening usually have a bit of flexibility in how they do it may leave at normal ish time and then log back in later on, that flexibility isn't there so much if contractually tied to the extra time each day.

It was a complete one-off that I managed to get it agreed as generally in my industry the norm is for people to work beyond the contractual hours at least some of the time as/when necessary anyway so I was getting paid when many other colleagues were not - I got it agreed more via salary negotiations as part of haggling on whether to stay or leave