Taking on a pub.... am I crazy??

[InspectorGidget]

I've recently been made redundant from 19 years working for a bank so considering my options.

A local pub has just become available as the previous landlord has retired after many years.

I've a viewing / meeting arranged for the week after next but if anyone has any pearls of wisdom (other than 'don't do it!'), I'm all ears.

It's a Robinsons pub and they are apparently offering a 'brand new agreement' they have just launched so I can't really base on my friends' experiences till I see what that looks like so if anyone has the inside track, it would be appreciated!!

Get a good accountant and a good solicitor on board from the outset. They both need to do proper "due diligence" as to whatever agreements/contracts you'll have to sign, and you also need sight of the accounts/tax returns/vat returns of the previous landlord for at least three years, preferably five, and get your accountant to prepare forecast/budget cash flow statements and profit & loss accounts for the forthcoming three years. Your lease needs to be checked to ensure you have break clauses, to ensure you're not over-ly liable for repairs to the building, i.e. roof, foundations, structure, etc. Some contracts/leases that landlords expect a licensee to sign are ruinous. Make no assumptions, check EVERYTHING, including the leases, contracts, agreements, beer contracts, etc. Please don't go in blind. You also need to fully understand how all the taxes will work, how to employ people, how to put them through a payroll, employee rights (holidays, sick pay, pensions, etc). If the existing landlord already has staff, you need to check whether they'll be paying them off with redundancy etc or whether you'll be taking them on under TUPE meaning you immediately become liable for their accumulated notice/redundancy rights, accrued holiday entitlements, etc. Pubs are notoriously complex and risky businesses so do all the due diligence you can, check everything, and don't scrimp with professional advice such as accountants, solicitors, and maybe a surveyor to do a survey if the lease puts liabilities onto you as to repairs of the building etc.

All of the above and check what the utilities bills were. This along with your staff and stock will be your most expensive outlay. Most pubs only open a couple of days a week as most people can't afford to eat or have a couple of drinks.

The most important thing to know is that running a pub is a lifestyle. Not a job. Be prepared for this. It is bloody hard work, relentless. I've been there done that. Never again.

Where do you live? Pubs are open every day here

That ^^
I was born in a pub, I lived in them all my life and my parents ran pubs for over 40 years
It’s hard hard work physically and mentally and honestly I wouldn’t recommend it
My dad has back issues and also carpal tunnel in both hands which is purely from pulling pints for so long.
He would start at 7am letting cleaners in, doing the cellar cleaning, setting up for opening. Then work from opening with a break from 3-5pm, then shower and change for the evening, then clearing up, banking etc after close. So basically 7am - midnight working hours and that was 7 days a week unless you’ve got an excellent assistant manager

electric, water etc all sky high and that was 2020

Lots of good advice from previous posters.

Also, do a search for Mumsnet threads about owning a pub/running a pub.

Good luck!

Have you even worked in a pub before? If not, you’re being insane.

Agree! I’ve lived all over and never known pubs to open only a couple of days a week. Most open every day.

Pubs are closing at an alarming rate. I would need to be very sure that there was something exceptional about it before I even considered taking one on.

Pubs these days are all about the food. There is very little money to be made from only selling drinks. Therefore any planning should be food focused and you need to think about how to achieve this. Look at the local demographic and work out what will bring people in. It's extremely hard work, when you can't afford a cleaner and/or any other staff and have to do it all yourself, late nights and early mornings and dealing with people who can sometimes be difficult. I have previous experience of this and I know you don't want to hear it but I wouldn't do it!

Thank you so much for all this food for thought.

I've worked in bars but not since my early 20's (I'm 46 now!). So I appreciate the world has changed.

My sister has run a pub but she is very different to me - I am very good at keeping business and fun separate but absolutely I know it's a lifestyle.

I'm going through masses of personal change at the moment, with my redundancy I am also separating from my husband (I could have started a whole thread about that but I'm trying to look forward with positivity!).

This pub has family connections so I feel like I need to explore this fully but I'm very much a pros / cons person so I won't be blinded by that!

Absolutely will make sure I get sight of all the figures etc - one thing I am certain of is that I won't be 'investing' my redundancy money into this but I also don't want to be held over a barrel(!).

A couple of worry beads for this new contract is that the brewery set the prices and I'd be walking distance from a decent Wetherspoons and of course the cost of living.

There's a pub group on Facebook - might be worth asking on there people's experience of the brewery. It's called the pub owners network group.

If you've worked in bars you will probably know that you will be charged premium prices by the brewery for kegs you could get for a third of the price elsewhere and will be bound by the brewery prices. I remember 25 years ago that a keg from the local brewery was approx £30 whereas it was £90 form the tied brewery for the same thing.

It's not easy and you will have to serve food and be busy on days other than just the weekend. You will be tied to the job and the bar at all hours. I worked in bars and was close to the management (although not the actual management) back in my 20s/early 30s and I would not do it now. it started to annoy me because people drinking were selfish, didn't want to go home and had an inflated sense of importance and their rights whilst in the bar. Obviously that is the few, not the many, but it's not something I'd have the patience for these days.

Maybe if you live in the arse end of nowhere...

If you are going though a lot of changes - redundancy and separation - I wouldn’t rush into making a big decision about the pub. Wait until the dust settles. It’s such a big commitment from the sounds of it.

Thank you all - @iamnotalemon this is something I'm making sure I tell myself.

For most of my 19 years I was a financial adviser so if I was advising someone like me I'd be considered vulnerable with so much going on.

My son and his wife were running a pub up until six months ago. They've just handed it back to the brewery. The big factor was the increase in NMW and NI payments for workers - they struggled extremely hard to find good, consistent workers and would often find themselves having to staff the place themselves for days at a time (people phoning in sick at very short notice, etc). Their pub was in a small rural town, so finding workers was very difficult in the first place, but their wages bill was getting a lot to manage.

They also want to start a family and were finding that they could rarely take time off together - the pub was a 24/7 enterprise, particularly with the aforementioned lack of consistent workers made it an incredible struggle. They both went into 9-5 jobs and are currently enjoying having time off to spend together.

I'd be concerned as they are closing a lot, and the amount of food you need to sell is huge.

First post covers it really, get lots of advice and see previous accounts etc.

Running a pub is hard work an it can be hard to make a profit, especially if you have rent to cover. you need to be prepared to work 7 days a week to cover staff that don't turn up etc.

I want to back up a PP who said about their pub only being open a couple of days a week. Our local isn't open every day. It only opens from Weds to Sat. The other days, it was paying multiple staff and getting hardly any customers in.
It opens fewer days now, which means less outgoings.

Honestly I think you're crazy. I know that's not what you want to hear! It's the hardest job and every single customer regrets giving you the money because they could buy the same thing and drink at home for a lot less. Your ideal customer drinks a lot. Can you imagine that? I worked for a brewery many years ago and heard so much about alcoholic landlords. A typical landlord doesn't have any other social life except in his own pub. What kind of life is that? There are so many more things you could do if you want to change your lifestyle.

Also, sorry to be that person but the next pandemic is thought by those in the know to be along far, far sooner than most of us imagine.
Could you absorb the costs?

I’ve worked for 2 successful pub over years. One near a football stadium the other a beach and shops. Location is everything really. Not sure I’d take one on myself.

The pub in our village only opens evenings. It doesn't open at all during the day. I think it opens about 6pm. They tried everything including lunch time meals, coffee machine, afternoon teas, but the footfall just isn't enough to justify the wages and utilities costs of being open several hours with barely any customers.

I ran pubs in my 20s - im now 50 and absolutely bloody no chance. Especially one tied to a brewery.

no lifestyle. No real down time. No time to see family. Constantly worrying about cover and issues when not there.

Security - depending on areas/live in - robberies, drunk or violent customers.

staff. Constant recruitment. Managing staff. Training staff. Dealing with all the issues that brings. Covering all the shifts when people flake or leave.

cellar management. Heavy tiring work. Week in week out.

don’t even get me started on if you serve food..

have a look at other Robinsons pubs in the area. Can you speak to last folks in.

Dh works in the brewing trade. He’d never run a pub. The companies who run them screw you so much there’s no money.

This is why they close down all the time.