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Any HR people able to advise me please?

13 replies

HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 10:18

Need some HR / legal advice please.

We run a small business with a handful of employees. I have had to dismiss an employee for gross misconduct. He stole £3k in cash from us and we have informed the police that we wish to press charges. We know it's him, he has admitted it, so there is no issue there and he has said he wants to try to pay the money back.

The employee was given a contract which he signed, but he doesn't seem to have a copy of it any more. He has said he is speaking to a lawyer and the lawyer has asked to see a copy of his contract.

I know we need to give him any outstanding pay up to and including his last day of work. There may also be some untaken holiday pay due. It isn't going to happen in this case, but in theory I guess that we could even end up owing more than the value of the theft.

Am I within my rights to send him the payslip but not the money, given that he has said he wants to pay it back anyway, or do I need to pay him in order for it to be sent straight back, and just hope that he does it? Although I don't think he'd mind if we just kept the money, I am nervous about his criminal lawyer trying to trip us up in some way for not doing eveything above board. He is speaking to a lawyer to help him with the criminal charges, it's not an employment tribunal thing. I also wonder if his lawyer might advise him not to return any money owed to him in wages and to leave it to us to persue it through the courts.

I know we can still fire him for theft, but can charges still be brought if there is no actual loss as a result of the theft? How do you argue that you have lost 3k to theft if you haven't actually lost it and it's been paid back before something comes to trial? Will this prevent a prosecution?

Thanks.

OP posts:
ThatsNotMyTeen · 18/04/2025 14:19

Does your contract of employment allow you to make deductions from an employee’s pay?

Vatsallfolks · 18/04/2025 14:26

Sorry but just because he has behaved appallingly does not mean you can ! Pay him what is due under the contract and press charges..

VanCleefArpels · 18/04/2025 14:30

The charge of theft related to him taking something that isn’t his. Whether you get repaid or not is immaterial. If that were the case then any theft that resulted in an insurance claim for example wouldn’t be prosecuted. However he does have rights to be paid whatever is due to him at the end of his employment. If he does not voluntarily pay it back you will have to sue him for it. I’m pretty sure his criminal lawyer will advise to pay back - it will go down well as mitigation at sentencing

Comefromaway · 18/04/2025 14:30

Sorry You’ve gone through this. We had a similar situation, caught him on CCTV but he got away with it in court as he claimed £20 notes were A4 sized timeshets!

but on the other point. Unless the contract specifically allows for deduction of wages or you have his agreement in writing then you have to pay what he is owed. Salary up until the day he was dismissed & untaken holiday pay.

Hoppinggreen · 18/04/2025 15:00

It sucks but please take proper advice from a HR specialist
Getting it wrong could not only cost you and do you really want to hand another penny to this thieving scumbag?

HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 18:03

Vatsallfolks · 18/04/2025 14:26

Sorry but just because he has behaved appallingly does not mean you can ! Pay him what is due under the contract and press charges..

Yes I understand I have to pay him. The question is whether I can arrange with him that it's pointless making the bank transaction into his account and immediately back to ours, and to just agree to send him the payslip minus the money, which will still leave us out of pocket. I am not trying to avoid paying him, but he's offered to repay the money he stole.

OP posts:
HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 18:03

ThatsNotMyTeen · 18/04/2025 14:19

Does your contract of employment allow you to make deductions from an employee’s pay?

From memory, no but I will check.

OP posts:
HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 18:07

Comefromaway · 18/04/2025 14:30

Sorry You’ve gone through this. We had a similar situation, caught him on CCTV but he got away with it in court as he claimed £20 notes were A4 sized timeshets!

but on the other point. Unless the contract specifically allows for deduction of wages or you have his agreement in writing then you have to pay what he is owed. Salary up until the day he was dismissed & untaken holiday pay.

Yes I am going to pay him what is owed of course, but I have it in a whatapp message from him that we should keep any money he is owed in outstanding pay as payment towards what he stole. I just want to make sure that I am not tripping myself up by taking him at his word. He will be issued a payslip, I am trying to work out whether I should pay him and let him pay it back (and hope he does) or agree to an arrangement (with written agreement) where the money just stays with us. We'll still be down about 2k even then!

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 18/04/2025 18:14

Please be careful
If it IS illegal for you to deduct money from his wages (IANAL but you do nned one) then him telling you its ok does not change that

HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 18:15

HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 18:07

Yes I am going to pay him what is owed of course, but I have it in a whatapp message from him that we should keep any money he is owed in outstanding pay as payment towards what he stole. I just want to make sure that I am not tripping myself up by taking him at his word. He will be issued a payslip, I am trying to work out whether I should pay him and let him pay it back (and hope he does) or agree to an arrangement (with written agreement) where the money just stays with us. We'll still be down about 2k even then!

Sorry I've just realised I am contradicting myself by saying I will pay him, but at the same time trying to find a way not to pay him. Confused My head is a bit fried with all of this stress.

I mean I am going to issue him a final payslip and include any accrued holiday pay. I'm not just doing absolutely nothing and issuing a P45. But of course as he has offered to just let us keep any money he's owed as a partial repayment of what he's stolen, I want to make sure I am good to take him at his word.

I think I am more comfortable with paying it and asking him to do the decent thing and transfer it straight back. I haven't asked him to repay it, he has offered.

OP posts:
HRadvicePlease · 18/04/2025 18:15

Hoppinggreen · 18/04/2025 18:14

Please be careful
If it IS illegal for you to deduct money from his wages (IANAL but you do nned one) then him telling you its ok does not change that

Ok I understand, thank you.

OP posts:
Mrswalliams1 · 18/04/2025 20:00

You need to pay him to ensure the correct tax etc is paid. By law you cannot take deductions from his wages (to pay back the debt) which would leave him under the national min wage.
I suggest it's all done correctly by paying him and reclaiming the stolen money a other way

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