Freelancers: Negotiating consultancy rates, and when to 'walk away' ?

[Legacy]

I find this so hard. There is a difference of £500 per day between the lowest day rate I've charged and the highest, over the last 2 years.

I've been asked to put in a 'proposal' for a piece of work which is:

• interesting (if probably quite demanding)
• opens up a new sector/ experience
• would provide a guaranteed 2-3 days a week for the next 6 months.

So I put in a 'mid-range' day rate proposal, and he's just come back saying they can't meet my expectations.

I'm happy to negotiate a little, but am trying to work out how I decide "no, I'll turn this down at £x level"

I've checked industry averages for what I do, and I'm above average, but definitely in the normal range.

Ooh, it's a hard one, this. I've had similar problems. If your service is not "essential" they won't pay the going rate - no such quibbles if you are the plumber, electrician or carpet-fitter.

Could you enter into a dialogue on a "what's your budget for this" kind of basis?

I would ask them straight what they want to pay
then you can negotiate up and of course it may be above your bottom line.

I guess if it opens up a new sector for you you could do a bit of a loss leader and charge a lower rate

UnquietDad - it all comes across as a bit pants really - I asked them what their budget/ day rate expectations were, and the answer was alond the lines of " We know we need help, but we don't have a consultancy budget as such, and we're umming and ahhing between a short term consultant and employing someone full time"

But given they want to start the project in 2 weeks time I think they're not being very realistic!

I agree with CD. Ultimately it comes down to how much you want/need the work. There sound like there are quiet a lot of bonuses plus it's a good length project so I'd be inclined to negotiate further.

Sounds as if you need to convince them you are essential and good value for money!

Make up a "10% off for new clients" offer?

My initial proposal was "15% off my standard rate" since it was quite a long term contract!

Given that I put my marker in the sand first, I've asked them if they want to make me a proposal which I'll see if I can accommodate (i.e. negotiate up from).

That sounds a useful way forward.

Am a bit hacked off though - they have already sent me loads of briefing docs for the project + reading etc

I don't know what they were expecting - me to do it for free!!?

That said, the person I'd be working for is really great, so I DO want to do it if we can come to a reasonable agreement...

Can you fill the next 6 months with other work that will be more lucrative?

Committing yourself to 6 months worth of work at a rate you are not happy with doesn't sound great.

Especially as, IME, they end up asking for more and more for the same money as time goes on.

DO NOT start without agreeing teh rate (I've learned that one the hard way ).

I agree with CDs approach. THey sound very wishy washy these clients...

And also if they are wishy washy and maddening, you may want to reconsider just what it would be like to work for them.

I once walked out of a project that was driving me barking, on that basis.

Gobbledigook - those are important considerations, you're right.

The opportunity cost to some extent is time spent with the kids over summer, as otherwise I'd probably take more time off, so I really don't want to undersell myself.

"THey sound very wishy washy these clients... " -this makes me laugh - I agree - but they are actually a really big, well-known corporate name, so it's ironic really.

" We know we need help, but we don't have a consultancy budget as such, and we're umming and ahhing between a short term consultant and employing someone full time"

This just sounds like they are trying to get something for nothing and trying force you to take it by saying that otherwise they'll just get a full time member of staff in instead.

I think you have to stand strong and say what you are prepared to work for and no less.

Especially if it's losing you time with the children over the summer (isn't that just the hardest time of year to try and work! Argh!)

Ooh that's a tough one.. (so happy to see another freelancer thread - shall we petition for our own topic area? ).

I have a range of rates too, which vary depending on the client/how interesting the work is/what future work it might lead to/ whether it broadens my experience.

How easy is it in your field to get guaranteed work? Would a slightly lower rate (which still turned a reasonable profit for you) for a longer period work out better financially than having more gaps in between work and earning less overall?

I took a 6 month contract at my lowest rate last year, because we needed the security of the regular cash for it and it was a really interesting project. It also led to future work because I'd gained experience in that specialist field - so overall it's proved lucrative.

It depends really on what else you think might come up..any thoughts? I'd ask them straight up what they'd pay too...and see whether it's still over the minimum you'd be prepared to accept..

agree that a freelancer topic would be great

Well -quick update - I went back to them and said did they want to let me know what they had in mind as appropriate, and I'd see if I could accommodate it, and the main client replied. Seems as if he is potentially having problems to get the board to understand that contractor rates are relatively high. He is off on holiday now for a week, and says he will have to pick up on his return

My sense is that it probably won't go ahead, as they aren't used to contractors, and will likely still balk at even my minimum, but we'll see....

I agree a Freelancers topic would be FAB. I often wish I had someone else to chew over problems with, and as the current indemnity thread has shown, it's really useful to be able to network!

I'll start a thread to gauge interest, and perhaps we could lobby??

that is annoying Legacy. I hate it when clients mess around. Yes, let's lobby for a freelancers topic.

OK, Freelancer's topic thread here

Oh Legacy how annoying! At least if they are failing to "get" working with a contractor at this stage, it will be perhaps a lucky escape from an organisation that might struggle to work in this way throughout the project..

If we have a freelancers topic, can we have a big support thread for "clients that don't blinking pay freelancers on time". Have had enough of rubbish payers despite my best efforts to invoice on time, nag, put terms and conditions of payment on invoice, nag again.

It's so frustrating. Every month we slip back a bit financially whilst waiting for payments to arrive. DH is self-employed too so it can be a nightmare in our house when we're both waiting payment! If we both got paid in reasonable time we'd be fine financially - not millionaires but okay. I started with one client last year in August and didn't get a single one of my monthly payments until just before Christmas!