Flexible working request after MAT leave?

[Hannah0120]

Hi all,

wondering if anyone would be able to give me some advice as I am due back to work in 10 weeks and my DD will only be 9 months old. I am a call centre manager, I worked my way up to this post from being an agent. Ideally, I would like to go back to work full time (40 hours pw) but to split my days into half a day in the office, the rest of the day at home. Now, my company are very notorious for saying no to this and have even made managers step down back to an agent in the past when they have asked for reduced hours due to childcare so I have a feeling it’s going to be a strong no. Now, my argument is there is one manager there who they accommodate this for. Surely it shouldn’t be no for everyone else when said manager (same role as mine may I add) is able to do the exact thing I am proposing! So, I guess my question is in terms of the legal side of things, if I do get a no which I am expecting.. do I have a leg to stand on? I just don’t want to be forced to step down when I worked hard to get where I am.

Why can’t you use FT childcare?

Them having allowed for one manager has absolutely no bearing on your request at all op. Legally they have to consider each case on its merit or detriment. The fact that they have allowed it once then never again would suggest that it's had a detrimental impact on the business rather than a positive one.

They are required to deal with FWRs on a first come basis, which means they might do it for one person but not another.
I suppose it depends on the reason(s) they would be declining it.

You've left it rather late to sort this out you need to get yoyr skates on.

She probably is!

@YourSnugHazelTraybake yes you might be right as it was signed off by someone higher up who is no longer in the business. The reason this manager has part wfm and part office is also due to the same reasons (childcare) so I thought it may be more in my favour. I guess not! Thank you

@QuickPeachPoet Sorry does FT childcare mean full time childcare? My shifts are 10am-7pm so I would barely see her she would be asleep by time I got home from work.

@ByQuaintAzureWasp I have left it late, my own fault but had so much to deal with recently from parent loss to moving home so as stupid as it sounds this didn’t even cross my mind. I’m hoping I can get something sorted this week

How does this help with childcare? Half days of nursery are more expensive than full days (on hourly basis) and no company is going to agree to you caring for a child when they are paying you to work!

@AmIHumanOrAmIAYeti my husband is self employed so would be able to be at home for half of the day I am at work. If you read the above comments, you would see I have stated that another manager does just this. Leaves work at 2pm to pick up their children and then log back on at home whilst looking after said children cooking dinner etc as they have stated to me before. So surely they are “agreeing to them caring for a child whilst they are paying them to work!”

You say it is a historic arrangement.

Nobody company is going to agree to that today. It’s not safe (baby/toddler especially).

Is it your plan for your DH to care for your child while working in the mornings and you would like to do the same in the afternoons?

Even if you could get your managers to agree to this (and I can’t imagine they will) I’m not sure you get how virtually impossible it will be to actually do it. I understand why you would want this arrangement but you can’t effectively do a job while caring for a baby. You might be able to cobble together one or two shifts doing it in an emergency but every day is not going to work.

Could you change your shift patterns or perhaps afford to drop a day so you have more time with your child? Either way you’re going to need some form of childcare in place.

As the mother of a 5&3 year old I think what you think this will play out like vs what it will actually play out like are two completely different things.

You want to see/spend time with your DD but also plan to be WFH at the same time. Appreciate your DH will be there but strongly suspect DD will want you and DH will ‘I'm just gonna quickly do…’ disappear and leaves DD with you. You end up flustered, frustrated and wanting to do both things at the same time then work get annoyed you’re very clearly half present at best and you get equally annoyed because ‘how are you supposed to be a mum if you can’t see your DD’ which is understandable but equally not your employers fault because you are selling them your time in exchange for a wage but your priorities aren’t the job anymore so it becomes an inconvenience that’s trying to tear you away from your DD and life you’ve become accustom to over the past 9 months.

I kind of went through this myself and that’s how it played out for me.

Speaking from experience when DC have been sent home from nursery ill, it is impossible to properly work at home whilst a child is around, unless you have another adult in the house fully supervising them. You cannot do work properly whilst also supervising an under 1 or cooking them dinner. If your colleague is doing this, they are not working properly and that is not something to emulate. If your DH is at home, he is the one that should be looking after DC, cooking dinner, doing bedtime etc. So you still won't get masses of quality time with your DC because presumably you'll be shut away in a different room on calls.

You should also check your work policy as this situation is specifically covered in our flexible working guidelines and it says apart from emergency situations, you must have childcare in place to cover your working hours.

I suggest you sort out with your DH a rota system. If your hours are 10am-7pm then you do every morning getting ready, breakfast, bit of playtime, drop off etc and he does every evening pick up, tea, getting ready for bed. Loads of working dads don't get home until after 7pm and just see DC when they are already ready for bed - your situation is just more unusual in that the parental roles are reversed.

Otherwise, you have to take the financial / career hit. DD2 is 1yo and I went back to work 2months ago. I dropped my hours to 3 days per week so I could spend proper time with her and DD1 before she starts school. The days im in the office, DDs are usually already having stories / ready for bed when i get home, but then i get the two extra days a week off with them. Yes the financial hit is frustrating but it's only for a few years and then hopefully I can go back to full time.

Exactly and yes you can try and ask but putting like people do when they are a teenager ''but mum why can't I go to the party my BFF is going it is not fair!" may not work

you need to sort proper long term childcare

I consider FWA in my role. For example our staff work early, mid and late shifts. One woman has a FWA to work only earlies so she can pick up her school aged child.

A second person then asked for the same. We can’t accommodate this second request without ending the first one or there would be too many people having to cover a higher proportion of lates. So I refused it.

Then person 3 joined us for 6 months on a lates only contract so person 2 was able to get her request for that 6 months.

There is a requirement to review FWA to see if they are still needed and can still be accommodated. We review every 6m. In this case person 1 is about to be told that due to a restructuring we will have to end her FWA as we no longer have the flexibility to meet her request. (Other staff need those early shifts for business reasons).

All that just to illustrate how these agreements should be monitored and can change. You can ask whether your colleague’s FWA has been reviewed. But it is first come first served and looks like they don’t want to have two of their managers away from the office.

It’s possible the other person’s contract was changed and it a perm arrangement that can’t be changed (as was common at one point). Or both sides consider it Custom and Practice which is basically the same thing.

There is no way you can work and look after a one year old.

If I’ve understood you correctly your plan is for your OH to look after the baby while you would be in the office and then you look after them while you are working from home the other half of the day?

if so, that’s a car crash waiting to happen. You can’t work properly while looking after a baby/toddler, it’s not a childcare solution. Your employer would be mad to agree to that.

You need proper childcare for your child. Just because people were forced to do this during COVID it doesn't make it right.

Also just because someone else has a flexible request approved doesn't guarantee anyone else will. In my experience at work management will often agree to some sort of request then find it's a fucking disaster but they can't easily rescind it so they just swear to never agree to another one.

I would see it as, yes, you don't get evening time with your child, but you could have loads (3 hours or even more maybe depending on your commute and how early DC wakes) in the morning and make it really lovely. That's a lot more really than you'd get if you were coming home after ending a shift at 5, and most young kids are a lot more fun in the mornings than they are early evening!

Very much agree with PP that you can't work with a baby/toddler around if you're looking after them. You won't be able to do either well. I have primary age kids and couldn't even WFH around them regularly.

You can't wfh and look after a small baby. No wonder firms are clamping down on this practice. It really doesn't work. I hope you sort something out.

Agree, you can’t wfh and do childcare. Your immobile nappng baby will soon be an inquisitive verbal toddler. You can’t expect to run meetings or make calls uninterrupted. Could your dh drop them off at a childminder when he starts work?

How long is your commute within your shift? Your flexible request might be better starting earlier to do the child care pick up. Then dc spends time with each of you.

You can't WFH and look after a baby (and even less so a toddler). Take it from the people who had to do it during Covid.

It's arrangements like this which ruin the "WFH" name.

A lot of people actually WORK when they are WFH, they don't do childcare. But then when situations like this occur and people start to WFH whilst doing childcare it then becomes a reason that other people aren't allowed to WFH who would actually DO some work.

You cannot effectively WFH and do childcare.

Your child will see you forever attached to a screen or phone. And your staff that you manage may not have you available to them when needed because you're suddenly off cooking dinner or changing a nappy etc.

For the sake of your child please put them in to some kind of childcare. Allow them to play and develop whilst you work.

You will see your child - mornings before 10am when you could drop them off, and then days & evenings when not working.

I have a job where I sometimes WFH. I have a 4 year old at school and a 2 year old at the childminder. On the rare occasion things have gone pete tong I have had them at home for an hour or two. HELL ON EARTH.

Don't do it.