Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Warning, long. Just been put on a PIP and mulling how to approach it.

20 replies

WorkWorries25 · 15/03/2025 11:30

I’m a longtime poster but have name changed to disconnect this from my usual posting, and this is going to be a long one, sorry, so I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to read, and in a way it’s as much about clarifying my own thoughts.

Earlier this week my line manager, who joined the company about four months ago, called me into a meeting, at which our top manager was also present, and advised that he wanted to put me on into the first “informal” stages of a performance improvement plan. The examples he gave during the meeting of my recent underperformance were, I feel, fairly weak: one was a mixup I made with booking a meeting room which resulted in an internal meeting having to be rescheduled; the other a single missed deadline on one of my monthly service level agreements. For reference, I’m in a fairly senior position, and I agreed with him in the meeting that these failings were unacceptable, but also pointed out that they were completely isolated examples during my time with the company. He also said that he finds it difficult to talk to me in our one-ones as I don’t give much back. This one I feel is more an issue with his management style: I’m genuinely not an adversarial type, I’m not defensive or challenging, I’m not precious about negative feedback (indeed, a large chunk of my role is managing complex stakeholder relationships where I have to negotiate challenging feedback) and I do know that my colleagues have and would agree with that view. I acknowledged that I’m not somebody who talks for the sake of talking (either in work or my personal life), and that I respond more effectively to direct questions with specific requests for information rather than his vague “so how are things going?” style, which could come across as me appearing evasive to those who aren’t familiar with me.

I’m more than willing to acknowledge that there are absolutely areas of my work which are weaker and probably do need some support or development: I joined the organisation in my role almost four years ago, and both the business and how my role serves and interacts with the business have become significantly different since then. There are new technical areas that I’m not sufficiently skilled in, and a lot of additional pressures and processes from new global jurisdictions I’ve had to pick up and learn. I’ve identified this previously in regular appraisals, and identified some training I could access, though my previous manager was fairly blasé about it. But ultimately, this is something I would have expected my new manager to address first through normal line management and appraisal processes, discussing with me an approach to develop my skills and capability, rather than straight into a PIP which is essentially treating it as something to be disciplined.

I have my formal meeting with HR next week and am mulling over my approach. If the business genuinely believes I’m sub par for its needs and wants me to become more competent and this PIP is about being supportive of that. As I say, I’m not adversarial or precious about criticism and I would like to be more confident in my role’s new responsibilities. But I’m also aware that companies do often use PIPs as a route of managing out people who just don’t fit in the business strategy anymore - and if this is their end game and I and they are just going to be going through the right process for them to be able to make that happen, I’d rather save them the admin and me the stress and anxiety and negotiate my way out now with a settlement and a neutral reference.

Would it be overstepping to be transparent about that in next week’s meeting? Or would it come across as defiant or unwilling on my part? I’ve never been in this situation before with any job, have always been considered a good and valuable employee, so have no experience of having my performance managed like this and how to respond.

Thank-you so much for reading if you’ve gotten this far, any advice from those who’ve been in, or led on applying, a PIP would be very much appreciated.

OP posts:
HelplessSoul · 15/03/2025 11:38

Your manager is a fucking cunt.

I'd be launching a grievance on him for his shitty and wishy-washy pseudo complaints. The fact he had another top manager present proves he wants you out and is a spineless clown who needed back up/support.

I'd counter all his shit with evidence and force him to do some legwork, like show where in your company policy a missed/rescheduled meeting automatically results in a PIP etc etc.

Pleasealexa · 15/03/2025 11:46

Do you have any backers in the organisation? I think it's a "managed out" situation and you will be very unhappy going forwards. Bringing you in to an informal, formal meeting suggests the writing is on the wall.

Does the company have a reputation for settlements? It might be one you explore at the meeting next week, just floating the option and seeing the response.

I'm seeing more of these situations, seems companies are looking to downsize, without paying redundancy.

tweddler · 15/03/2025 11:52

I think you're right that the 1:1s are likely to be the core of the issue. Fix those and my guess is the other stuff will go away.

I'd advise having a structure for all future 1:1s, where you cover all areas of your role with key achievements since last time, any issues that have come up, anything that's coming up soon, and anything where you need input / advice (always good to have a couple of these). Run the meeting yourself, make it efficient and business-like - make it clear that you're on top of your entire remit. And also make it clear that you value your manager's input - and where you think you need it.

nightmarepickle2025 · 15/03/2025 11:57

Play along in the HR meeting. The PIP needs to set out areas for improvement and metrics to measure progress. You'll get a sense from those if they're concrete and achievable. If they're not, then he's just trying to manage you out and you're better off going for a settlement.

MeandBobbyMcGoo · 15/03/2025 12:03

It sounds like they are managing you out OP. I agree with PP saying companies don't seem to want to pay redundancy so seem to be following this route more. I would maybe ask HR what options you have at this stage - that might open the conversation of a settlement.

Tiswa · 15/03/2025 12:07

I would call ACAS and see whst other services similar to this your company has.
DH had a grievance brought against him (entirely without merit) and this was vital in putting forward the correct defence and in the end he just got a written warning for not sending an email that was removed from his file after 6 months.

WorkWorries25 · 15/03/2025 12:11

Thank-you so much for your responses. I have an appointment shortly so can’t respond at length, but just wanted to let everyone know that I’ve read and will return.

I do know that this is my new manager’s first “proper” management role, which isn’t going to be helping either of us, and that his role was specifically created to navigate the changing needs of the business from where it was five years ago - almost entirely U.K. based - to now operating in six different countries: which is what’s instinctively leading me to suspect this is a managing out; whilst at the same time also being aware that criticisms levied about me lacking capability in particular areas and not serving the business’ needs adequately in all areas are fair: I know that I almost certainly wouldn’t be the successful candidate if I were applying for my own job today.

It will definitely help when I meet with HR next week to actually see concrete examples and expectations written down, and have some idea what sort of objectives are going to be used to measure me, and whether they’re achievable.

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 15/03/2025 12:19

Earlier this week my line manager, who joined the company about four months ago, called me into a meeting, at which our top manager was also present, and advised that he wanted to put me on into the first “informal” stages of a performance improvement plan.

this is de rigeur in so many companies and industries. New senior joins, settles in for a few weeks and then gets out their broom and starts sweeping away people they don't want on their crew.

i would keep your powder dry, take the PIP on, document everything you do to address actions in the PIP, over communicate about it, eg weekly updates to this manager, cc HR etc.

there will be a deadline to review your "progress" and at that point you'll have a very clear idea as to whether this person is using the PIP to get rid of your or if they genuinely want you to address the things they weren't happy about. Most of the time, the things they put into these PiPs are so meaningless because they are set at a point in time, to address an error made that cannot be magic'ed away. It happened, and proving you can book a meeting room is meaningless and pointless.

take it one excruciatingly painful step at a time, one foot in front f the other, meanwhile get your CV up to date and look for something new. You could start the legal process if you have significant years service, but if you've only worked for them for a couple of years, it isn't worth your effort.

Poppinjay · 15/03/2025 12:23

I think you should ask how the frequency and significance of the errors you've made compares with those made by other colleagues in similar roles.

SilverDoe · 15/03/2025 12:24

If this were me, maybe things are done differently at higher levels or in different organisations but I would be very unhappy about going straight to a PIP, even an informal one, in circumstances like this.

I'd expect that whatever areas of my work that needed improvement are, were brought to my attention in the first instance and any training or guidance that might support me be provided. I would then expect some kind of notice that repeat failures had been noticed, even if that was in the form of a warning.

Isleofskyeaurora · 15/03/2025 13:01

This happened to me - new manager comes in and the puts two staff on PIPs and it was definitely a being managed out situation! My colleague complained and was soon out the door after the complaint was resolved. I was actively kept out of initiatives to streamline delivery. I stayed the course even got to stage 1 capability where they didn’t give me a warning as Lo and behold my role was at risk of redundancy a week or so later due to restructuring so I’m looking for a new job now. The stuff my manager tried to pin on me was ridiculous and pathetic and you couldn’t measure success on that. You have to look at the bigger picture and go with your gut. If you think it’s your company trying to get you to leave of your own accord then use the time to get something else. Play along as it’s best to leave with a settlement than none at all. It took 9 months for me to get to where I am (ie out the door) so if you’re mentally strong, have a “let them, let me” attitude, do your best job for you (not for them), be professional but call out anything you think does not seem right (I called my organisation out on a few things and could have gone to town if I hadn’t been so ground down by the “you can’t do your job” all the time when feedback from team and peers was glowing! It was ignored of course because it didn’t suit the narrative. I would submit a grievance if you have the evidence for it as you’ll more likely get a better payout.

Bromley4ever · 16/03/2025 10:12

The hard thing about a PIP from the point of view of the person who has been placed on it, it is that it feels so personal and so threatening, more so than redundancy. From my experience the manager, because of their position, can always pick holes in someone’s work if they want to. The manager is very much in the driving seat. So if you fight, as I did, be aware you are mainly doing it for your own personal pride. If they really want you out, they can move goalposts at will, despite saying that they are operating within parameters.

WorkWorries25 · 29/03/2025 10:41

I just wanted to provide a follow up to everyone who was so helpful with their advice and support.

I had my meeting with HR and my line manager where the informal PIP and actions for fulfilling it were set out and I’m now reasonably confident that this is not an organisational managing out, but purely from my manager. HR were quite explicit in the meeting that they were rather surprised to see such a heavy handed approach taken towards a member of staff over what amounted to fairly minor and exceptional performance issues (particularly considering my level of seniority) which they felt could have been better addressed through one-ones where we familiarise with each other’s working styles and regular catchups between my manager and I about workload prioritisation and any potential pressure points on the horizon.

My manger was adamant that he still wanted to follow through with it so we’d both have a “reference point” and my PIP is incredibly high level with no actual targets and looks a bit like the sort of action plan the new intern in their first job would be given: it includes things like a set response time for emails, practicing using the online room booking system, and making myself a to-do list every day which I’m to share with my manager upon request! Basically, there’s nothing in it that’s in any way unachievable, and I’ve never been somebody with an ego so I’m content just to say “yes sir no sir” and get on with business as usual.

I refreshed my CV immediately following my last posts and uploaded it to a handful of recruiters not really expecting much, but got a flurry of responses and have had two interviews so far and three more upcoming, including a second interview for a role I’m really quite excited about!

Thank-you again. I was really down and my confidence had taken a big knock when I started the thread and I really wasn’t sure about myself - but getting the view of outsiders was brilliant.

OP posts:
Barleysugar86 · 29/03/2025 10:49

I would be looking for work elsewhere. I have seen people complete PIPs and go on to be a success in the company but 90% of people will go after them either jumping or pushing. You need to be getting your ducks in a row.

I would then take everything in it very seriously and present a face of 'of course you want to work with them on this'. Work on everything in there- document it- and present a face of total compliance and openness to working on the issues. If you don't have targets this makes the PIP hard to meet- maybe write some of your own that you are personally aiming for to help meet the terms of the PIP and share them to let them know what you understand as the issues e.g. no missed deadlines, no further issues with the booking system, and areas you'd like more training in.

Isleofskyeaurora · 29/03/2025 14:01

I would recommend you do unless you can change your manager. It became very clear mine was a clash with my manager and they would ask people to reach out to her if there was any issues with the tram rather than supporting her own team! My manager picked holes in minor stuff and clearly got a kick out of the whole process! So glad I don’t work there anymore

Togglebullets · 29/03/2025 14:13

I really don't understand how the first two responses to the op's update have managed to miss the fact that she is indeed looking for a new job.

Good luck with the 2nd interview op. I hope you feel vindicated after the meeting with hr.

Silvertulips · 29/03/2025 14:15

I have my diggers crossed for you! Sounds like you need something much better.

Sunshineandblueskysalltheway · 29/03/2025 14:23

There's a good chance that the 'new manager' has been brought in to cut numbers.

The things you have mentioned are not PIP worthy and they have brought your personality into it. If you're not a big talker then you're not. That doesn't mean you can't be a valuable employee.

It is an awful and maddening situation to be in but try hard not to take it personally. Look for another job and then give the cunt your resignation at the next little "meeting".

Middlechild3 · 29/03/2025 15:44

HelplessSoul · 15/03/2025 11:38

Your manager is a fucking cunt.

I'd be launching a grievance on him for his shitty and wishy-washy pseudo complaints. The fact he had another top manager present proves he wants you out and is a spineless clown who needed back up/support.

I'd counter all his shit with evidence and force him to do some legwork, like show where in your company policy a missed/rescheduled meeting automatically results in a PIP etc etc.

This, it's sham you've done the job ok for 4 years, a new person comes in. 2 annoying but fairly minor mistakes and you are in a pip? Nah he's got a mate waiting in the wings he wants in your job. Find your anger, get representation, fight back. Grievance etc DO NOT BE PASSIVE, be proactive.

Middlechild3 · 29/03/2025 15:47

Ah missed the update, good move and good luck!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page