Forced out in fake redundancy…help!

[Undertheoaks23]

First time poster, long time lurker. I need reassurance please! Ideally from posters experienced in HR or employment law, or who have been through a similar experience and come out the other side.

In brief, I told my employer that, following a fait accompli restructure, I would be raising a grievance for sex and age discrimination. I’m 50. I am very good at my job, which is senior and technical. I’m one of very few women in this team, and I’ve repeatedly watched younger men being promoted over me into new, unadvertised roles.

Private sector, large company, and I’ve been there for seven years.

Two weeks later, a second restructure was announced, making my role, and only my role, at risk. My work would, I was told, move to India. No job description for the Indian role had been written and I was told that it was not a direct replacement. They tried to hustle me into a without prejudice conversation, which I said that I wasn’t ready for: I know what that sort of conversation entails, and I wanted proper advice. I subsequently engaged a solicitor.

As soon as I raised the grievance, I was ‘frozen out’ of my work; my line manager started doing my work and arranging meetings with my team, excluding me, and without telling me. He stopped responding to e-mails from me.

The consultation process was conducted at high speed and was very stressful: the people conducting it were named in the grievance. It was obvious that they wanted me out of the door ASAP. My team and colleagues were aghast when they heard. The notes of the consultation meetings featured the other side’s unflattering view of me: I was described as ‘argumentative and stubborn’ in the notes, and as having ‘wasted their time’. I took my own notes and e-mailed them to my solicitor straight after each meeting.

The process was full of mistakes. I made a careful note of all of them: I’m not an engineer for nothing.

My solicitor contacted the business with a without prejudice offer, but the company’s counter offer was pathetic. They later raised it by a tiny amount. Then they decided to curtail the consultation without answering my questions and made me redundant by e-mail, with immediate effect.

Logically, I know that I’m in a strong position and I could certainly stand my ground at tribunal, but does anybody have any thoughts or experience that might help, please? I have this terrible sense of shame about what has happened, although I know that is silly. I am also worried that as a woman of 50 I will find it difficult to get a new role at an equivalent salary.

They will likely fold on the day of tribunal or just before. Keep strong!

What was the advice and recommendation from your solicitor on taking this to tribunal?

This.

And I’m so sorry this has happened to you. It’s absolutely appalling. You have nothing to feel ashamed of. I think you’re bloody marvellous.

He thinks that the case will settle, but not until I show that I’m serious about going to tribunal: rather like @Peacepleaselouise suggests.

I would like other people’s experiences of similar situations.

Thank you. It is so horrible to go through. The worst thing is the contemptuous way I’ve been thrown out after seven years.

I was a union rep for several years.
I saw the employer almost go to tribunal lots of times and then settle at the last minute.
They relied on employees either not bothering/ not understanding the process, so leaving/ backing off before it got to that stage. Because of that it was probably worth their while financially to pay out to those who did go up to the line.

Keep going @Undertheoaks23

Nobody can give you advice without knowing all the details of what has happened. It sounds like the only person who can advise you is your solicitor.

The reality is that if the company wants you to leave there are ways to legally make this happen. Whether they have followed a sensible course of action we cannot say without a lot more information. Whether you have a good chance of winning if it goes to an employment tribunal we cannot say either.

The bottom line is I highly doubt you are already in a legal dispute with the company. I highly doubt that you want to continue working there and it seems the company no longer wants to employ you. The best outcome for everyone would be some sort of settlement and an agreed neutral reference.

I can’t give all the details for obvious reasons: it would take ages and might be identifying. I’m not asking for an opinion on whether I would win or lose at tribunal.

My solicitor approached them about a settlement but their counter-offers were so low that it was a waste of time and money continuing the negotiation. Then they made me redundant anyway.

I’ve registered for ACAS early conciliation: any opinions, based on experience, of the likelihood of an employer settling at that stage?

Your solicitor has them over a barrel here, it's only a matter of time. When you start your next role, join a union.

Honestly @Undertheoaks23 there are thousands of employers in the UK and nobody can tell you the likelihood of what yours will do and how they will handle it. And other people’s experiences are unlikely to be relevant.

follow your solicitor’s advice and focus on finding another role while you pursue your claim.

Based on what you have said, the only things here between you and a strong settlement are (1) time and (2) resilience.

It will take time and you can't fast track it and you need to remain resilience as ime, they will do everything possible to break that resilience and prolong and vexate the process.

Stay strong and fight it. (Also get solicitors fees upfront in writing (& preferably a flat fee if possible (unlikely) so that they don't eat into your final settlement).

I’m not asking anyone to guess what my employer will do. I’m asking for other posters’ experiences.

Similar happened to a friend. She didn’t hold out for enough money IMO. They got away with a pathetic amount. You will win, go for it.

What I can’t decide is whether my employer’s newly-appointed solicitor - they didn’t seek external advice until after making me redundant, which seems insane, and they have chosen an expensive firm - might look at the facts and advise them to settle, or whether they will happily charge fees for advising on a weak case until the bitter end: any experience of that?

I should add she had a very good friend high up in HR so saved a lot of solicitors fees along the way.

do what you can yourself to save money.

as PP has said, this is about resilience.

Dont forget pension contributions, your age and therefore how difficult jt may be to find another role etc etc.

When I took my ex employer to court for sex discrimination, forcing me to leave (it was 20yrs ago and I can't remember the correct terminology) my solicitor wrote to theirs with all my evidence and their solicitor immediately told them to settle as they had zero chance of winning with one single sentence they had written let alone all the other evidence and witnesses I had. As I said 20yrs ago but as you've asked for people's experiences, in my experience they definitely didn't drag it out for fees and I was told (later by witnesses) that their solicitor absolutely handed them their arses and refused to take it to court and insisted they settle. I had my money within a week.
Obviously don't know your exact circumstances but hopefully it'll resolve quickly and you can put it behind you. I understand the feelings of shame even though there was absolutely nothing for me to be shamed about, hold your head high and fuck them over for every penny you are entitled to OP! Good luck

Thanks. This is all helpful to hear.

I've been through similar and it's tough. I did get a decent settlement though, once my employer engaged a half decent employment solicitor. It was stressful but it was also upsetting at being treated so badly after I'd given so much to the company.

My advice would be to start job seeking straight away so you can move on quickly, or if you can afford to take time off use the time to do something you've always wanted to. Try and turn the situation into a positive.

Thanks, and yes, I’m speaking to all the recruiters.

Just checking that I’ve understood you correctly: the trigger for a decent settlement was your employer engaging an employment law solicitor who knew what they were doing, and who advised your former employer not to pursue their weak case and to settle with you?

If so, that is heartening. I’m hoping that either that, or the ACAS early conciliation, will prompt them to fold. If not, I absolutely will go forward to tribunal.

Happened to a friend/colleague: company played hardball about settling right to day of tribunal

if you have a case, you have a case so will need to persevere

I’ve seen this and as others say, they’ll likely hold off until the day before or day of tribunal. Tribunals can be reported on and companies don’t want the bad press! Keep strong.

Also, put in a subject access request - super useful to see what comes out of it and a real pain in the bum for them to do

Was also going to say ask for a DSAR
As PP said, if nothing else it’s a huge pain for them
But may strengthen your case too

Hello, I'm an employment solicitor. In my experience most employers won't settle at the early conciliation stage but will wait until you bring a claim and take it from there. They'll have 30days to issue their response and then it will either be listed for a full merits hearing or a preliminary hearing will be scheduled. Their lawyer should be advising them on their prospects of success which sound pretty low based on what you've described. That said I've had lots of clients who won't hear of settling and waste thousands going through the whole case, and depending where you are based it could take 12-18 months to get a hearing date. Settlement is advised but not a given.