Would you apply for redundancy in these circumstances?

[MaybeIamJealous]

It was announced yesterday that there are to be some redundancies in my workplace. I have been there a long time and my redundancy pay would likely work out as approx 2.5 years take home pay. DH wants me to go for it.

I am torn as I am perimenopausal and also have health issues. As it is, I only work part time because of these issues. I don't think I would find a new job that easily.

On the other hand, I am overworked and underpaid. I've only stuck it with this job as long as I have because of my health and the fear of not being able to find another job.

I could probably make the redundancy payment stretch to 4-5 years of my expenses with careful budgeting and a few cutbacks, bringing me to 55-ish. I don't think my health issues would automatically qualify me for disability benefits, but I could look further into this.

DH also seems to think, after a year or two of not working, I may recover and be able to take up full time employment again but I worry I won't and he'll resent paying for everything, having to make sacrifices, when I can no longer contribute to the household expenses, and also that it would impact on future plans (DC's choice of university, our retirement pot etc).

I've spent the night tossing and turning over this. My brain is fried. For now the company is asking for volunteers and the terms are reasonable. I worry that enforced redundancies could follow and maybe the terms wouldn't be as good.

I'd love some advice. Thanks.

If you give up on funding a pension in your early 50s, what do you expect to live on in old age? You could live another 40 years.

What is stopping you from contributing more now?

I understand not wanting to work; I'm 61 and hate my job. I have stress related insomnia and other issues related to working. But you have to be realistic. Expecting to re-enter the workforce several years from now in your late 50s in a job with any meaningful wage is pie in the sky.

I only contribute so little because (a) I'm only earning €20k now, so take home pay is less than €1500 pm. (b) I pay pretty much no tax, so there's no tax advantage (c) because he's a higher rate tax payer, DH then pays 30% into his pension - the most allowed for tax relief.

I have, in the past, paid more into a pension when I worked full time. My pension pot, if I never contributed to it again, is expected to be worth around €300k. DH's should be twice that.

I think everything works out OK for us so long as nothing happens to DH, or if we were to divorce (obviously I hope not and no indication at the moment, but nobody knows what the future holds).

We are careful with money and sold a house a number of years ago in a city which allowed us to be mortgage free where we are. It was a bit of a fixer upper and we have done all the main things except for the windows. Actually, some of them were done immediately, but we have 4 large windows which have since deteriorated (gas gone in the double glazing, the hinges are crumbling on one of the windows so we no longer open it). They will be replaced this year, regardless of what I decide. I have set up an alert for secondhand gates in case anyone is selling gates that would fit our driveway. Apart from fresh paint and a few bits inside, the rest of the house is done (needed new boiler, bathrooms and kitchen, flooring done throughout).

And I guess, we could downsize in the future too. Ours is a 5 bed house so hopefully the children will be reasonably independent in 10-15 years time. We live in a cheap enough area but the house now, if sold, would probably free up another €125-€150k, after allowing us to buy a 2 or 3 bed in the same area.

When I had some difficult issues, bereavements and my own health issues DH willingly supported the entire household for around 18 months till I could take my pension at 55.

You don’t need a financial adviser you need to work out your outgoings over the last year and factor in inflation. Then work our pensions and incoming money and future outgoings. You also need more than a half hour chat with him. Probably a few over the next few days.

I keep swaying between taking it and staying put. I guess if I knew for definite that the job would still be there in 5+ years time, it makes more sense to stay. If there's a risk of redundancy later on, with maybe worse than terms, I might regret it. But if those redundancies came in say 18 months I'd have most of that redundancy pay earned in the meantime, plus whatever they they offer.

Aarrgghh!!!! So much to think through.

Will you definitely get 2.5 years pay - have you had in writing the amount you'd get?

Most places cap redundancy payouts, so even if you've been there years you might not get the equivalent time in money.

^ This.

work takes a lot out of you. I would take this opportunity.

I guess given that you have a low salary (£20k ish) and will get most of your payout tax free, does your husband still support the idea if you whack it all into your pension and immediately need financial support unless you take on other part time work?

That's what I'd do if I was really worried about becoming employed again. Either your family finances can take the hit or they can't?

£20k is not a huge amount to make up though. What skills do you have?

I think I'd get it alright but need to look into the tax situation. The terms they've announced is 6 weeks pay per year of service (22 in my case). No mention of capping it. So that works out as 132 weeks pay at €385 = just under €51k. It would have been more if I worked full time.

I really don't understand the tax side of it. It seems like the basic exemption would only be about €27k, but then there is scope to increase it if you've not had a tax free lump sum in the last decade (another €10k) and then something about forfeiting your tax free lump sum on retirement could increase it further, but the figures get very confusing at this point, hence why I was thinking of speaking with a financial advisor.

I know there is potential for investment growth, but I didn't think it made much sense to pay any of the non taxable income into a pension?

I work in administration. Basically, office work. I guess I am pretty good with excel, Word etc, but wouldn't be particularly good at typing so not secretarial. I think in Dublin a full time equivalent wage for my role would probably be more in the region of €45-€50k.

@MaybeIamJealous please double check the amount/make sure it's not capped before you make your final decision. I'm sure your maths is good but I've never come across somewhere that doesn't cap it x

It sounds to me like you should take it OP, the terms seem extremely favourable.

I appreciate your concerns about finding work again in future, but with a rest your health may improve, or it may be an opportunity for you to retrain and perhaps work for yourself in future or to do something different which might pay as well or even better for less stress on you.

Staying doesn't sound like the safer bet in my opinion - either because they may well make mandatory redundancies on less favourable terms in future, or because you could even end up getting managed out if your health issues continue to impact your attendance.

You really need to meet with a fiduciary financial advisor (not someone who sells financial products on commission.) i don't think you understand the long term implications and Mumsnet isn't the place to seek answers.

What if your earner husband becomes ill, disabled, dies or divorces? There are many people who bailed from work thinking none of that would ever happen, but it did.

What if we have a prolonged recession? What about big-ticket expenses like car, roof, travel, pet illnesses/surgery?

As I said, wanting to quit is understandable but doing so when you could well need to support yourself another 40 years likely isn't practical.

Very commonly businesses make redundancies and then regret them later, finding they are missing essential skills.

I would take the voluntary redundancy and speak to the business about the possibility of coming back as a consultant in the future if they need any support.

Limit it to 2 days a week, charge about half again your current salary, and let everyone within the business who you have a good relationship know that you’re available. Basically, aim to eek out your redundancy money until retirement by a bit of self employed stuff along the way…

Where I work, it's forbidden to hire ex employees as freelance or consultants for at least two years after their termination date.

If we have a recession, job opportunities will shrivel up. What worked in the 1990s and early 2000s isn't realistic now.

Be sure to get an actual offer before agreeing to redundancy. You may find that it is less than you think as you are only part time

I retired from work early at 57. My health improved hugely after I'd been away from work for 6 months. 2 1/2 years pay is very good. Companies often offer much better terms for voluntary redundancy than mandatory redundancy. If you hung on then you have to leave on the mandatory terms you'd feel sick. I think it's work going for the voluntary redundancy, focus hard on improving your health, take some time to enjoy yourself and if you run out of money you could look for another part time job. If your DH is encouraging you it sounds like he's worried about your health and he'd support you.

Going against the grain
I wouldn't
It sounds/a great amount of money but

1. It might not materialise if RP is capped
2. Not a great time pension wise to step away

3.It will be taxed 4.You have sickness and undiagnosed health issues so I would hang on 5.Your age and sickness record will massively go against you. 6.Rumblings of bonds crashing in the US , we could be heading for mass unemployment

I am also in Ireland. Depending on your location, you may not get another part time job when you need it. A lot of jobs are fulltime initially and then you have to ask for part time.

I don't know if you are rural. However a lot of offices are getting people to come to the office 2 days out of 5. If the job was 70km away, could you cope with the travel 2 days a week?

I think you should go to a recruitment agency, look and see what jobs are on offer in your local area, and use this as a guide to help decide.

If your husband thinks you can get another job easily and if this doesn't happen, would he put pressure on you,? Could you cope with light factory work, minding children, if you were years out of work and needed money?

Is your current organisation viable for another few years? If you worked on for a few years and then came out sick if you needed to? There would be less of a gap to pension age.

I am in the mid west of Ireland, am similar age and struggled for years to find work within a 30 mile radius when younger.

I am not saying don't but you need to size up the job market in your area and what work you can do if needed.

Yes I'm rural. If health improved I would be OK with commuting up to about 1.5 hours. DH works from home 2-3 days a week so I could go in the days he does. But I wouldn't be able to take it if I hadn't recovered. And that's the big issue. I would take any job if I were healthy. Full time would not phase me. But right now it's out of the question.

@MaybeIamJealous

I think in your shoes with a supportive husband I'd go for it.
I've taken redundancy twice, when I was 39 and in 2023 when I was 57. Single both times and about 6-8 months worth of pay.
It may be worth it to your husband to take the new job if you are effectively in a position to take over all household stuff.
In my 50s I'd prioritise my health to put me in a better long term position for retirement.
When I took redundancy last year I had a plan which is more or less working out.
I also had a plan the first time which didn't quite work out but it led me into a new area of work which I hadn't thought about before which was life changing in a very positive way for me.
I'd see this as an opportunity to focus on your health and change your longer term direction.
When you are bogged down in the day to day it's difficult to think about alternatives. This could be a chance for you to really think about your skills and competencies, what could be transferable to other types of job.
I was a civil servant all my working life, I'm now a foster carer. Not that I'd necessarily recommend it, but it shows you can do something completely different . There's maybe even time for you to do a few courses to unskill or help you change direction.
Good luck whatever you decide

What exactly are the health issues that preclude working?

This might be useful https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/retirement/income-tax-in-retirement/retirement-lump-sum-taxation/

Did you say you are there 20 years? My rough workings are E 35,460 tax free plus whatever statutory you are entitled to so you may find you are close to the E 51k that you think if uncapped.

www.mywelfare.ie/redundancycalculator#calcPanel

Basic Exemption
The Basic Exemption is €10,160, plus €765 for each complete year of service. (This does not include statutory redundancy which is tax free.)
The following can be counted towards a full year's service:

• Time worked before and after a career break
• A period of job-sharing or part-time work
• For group companies, all work carried out in Ireland

Increased Exemption You can get an Increased Exemption of an additional €10,000 on top of the Basic Exemption if you:

• Haven't received a tax-free lump sum in the last 10 years, and
• Are not getting a lump sum pension payment now or in the future

Healthcare would be the one sticking point. I would call your existing insurance provider since you have a preexisting if undetermined health issue and establish what it would cost to continue your policy privately.

I would also establish if the new job your husband is being offered comes with any family healthcare. It will be taxed as benefit in kind presumably but provided you can wait for any new customer waiting periods it would make a huge difference to your family income.

I would see an IFA. Given your pension is tiny and your husband is able to max his out it may be sensible to invest any payout and not use it for new windows and a driveway. With 30+ years potentially of life expectancy that may be a decision you will come to hugely regret

Thanks @TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams . That's very useful.

Where do I start. I have chronic pain. I start the day with some pain every day, but finish it with a heck of a lot more pain. I have continuous vertigo. I feel weak, tired, dizzy, and faint all the time. I get terrible headaches and visual disturbances. I have trouble swallowing. I have tinnitus. And I'm getting increasingly anxious after years of living with this and no real improvement. I am on several medications to treat the symptoms. I pay privately for physiotherapy and counselling, have had CT and mri scans, echos and numerous ecgs given that I have chest pain regularly. I'm on antidepressants because the Drs have basically said, if there's no obvious physical cause, we need to consider the fact it may be all in your head (or words to that effect).

This all kicked off following covid, so I was treated as a long covid patient, but I've since been released from the long covid clinic now that my breathing is generally fine. I was told they can't do anything for me now, but would be in touch if any new treatment is discovered.

If I stand for more than a few minutes I feel like I will fall over. I have needed assistance to the bathroom, in or out of bed/the car etc. My part-time hours are even too much for me in one sitting so I tend to work these over a full day but with many 20-30 minute breaks.

My latest 24 hour blood pressure monitor once again confirms this isn't a BP issue. I get this done every quarter. My blood work has shown that I am anaemic at the moment but this was not the case previously. I have started iron and vitamin B12 injections. No other blood tests such as thyroid etc were unusual.

I'm kind of at a loss as to where I go from here. I think I did pin my hopes a bit on taking time off from work and hoping I'd recover. But I'm terrified that this is it. I'm barely present for my kids in many ways. Can't tell you the last time I took them out for the day, even to the park for an hour.

While my husband is great, he misses the old me and our old life too. I also think he has pinned his hopes on me getting better if I leave work.

@MaybeIamJealous

I don't think you really need to justify yourself to random people on MN

But having read all that I'd take the redundancy. Give yourself a chance to recover.
The future will take care of itself