Is it an unwritten rule that you don’t take the annual leave you accrue on maternity leave?

[ForSnugLimeExpert]

I will preface by saying I do sometimes struggle with understanding unspoken rules or to recognise when people don’t mean what they say.

I came back from maternity leave towards the end last year, and asked HR if it was possible to carry over the leave until this year. I also asked my manager if he had a preference for how I took the leave, and he said, no, to take it however I wanted. I had also asked this before I went on leave and got the same response.

So I didn’t take any leave last year as I wanted to hit the ground running a bit, and instead have asked to take every Friday off for a while. My manager approved this, all good, and I’ve enjoyed having a bit of time to get various errands done.

Except he’s now told me there’s been ‘pushback’ on this and it is not company policy to allow it all to be carried over. But as I have in writing from HR that I could, it will be upheld.

I’m pretty gutted because I am really aiming to be promoted at work and I feel like I’ve missed an opportunity to show that I’m dedicated. Or that I’m being perceived as taking the piss by asking for the time off.

If I had been told that it wasn’t really the done thing to actually take the extra leave, I would have been disappointed but at least I would have known.

First ask if there is a business impact to you only working 4 days per week. You need to get to the bottom of why this is now an issue. Is it the principle or is it a genuine issue.

If it’s a genuine issue then maybe try to figure out a compromise. When I was doing 3 days per week I had to be flexible and work it around the business. I couldn’t have set days. That wasn’t a problem for me, the flexibility worked both ways.

If it’s just the principle, then I would stick to your guns and stay with the working pattern that works best for you.

yes! Definitely the ‘done thing’ most women at my work took it as a block before returning or took a day off a week. I would call ACAS

Obviously it’s your legal right to take your leave. I suppose the nuance here is how you’ve taken it - does that fit your workplace’s culture? Would it be accepted to take a day off every week usually (eg, not carried over leave, just your run of the mill allocation) or would it be more disruptive/difficult for other team members to deal with than if you took it in chunks? Employers are allowed to dictate when leave can/can’t be taken.

For what it’s worth most returners from mat leave I know either tack it on to the end of maternity leave (I’m doing this at the moment) or do what you have done so I don’t think you’ve done anything out of the ordinary. You asked if they had a preference which was their time to speak up if that wouldn’t work for the business. I’d try not to worry and if it does have any impact on promotion etc it would be very difficult for them to separate it from your maternity which puts them in a sticky situation.

"Done thing" is irrelevant. Laws and policies are the only thing that any self-respecting worker or business should worry about. If HR have told you one thing, and someone else has said "company policy" is different, then you need to ask those two people (or someone above them) to come to a mutual understanding and let you know what the official position is.

To add, I do think my manager is supportive and not bothered about me taking the leave but is just reporting what he’s hearing from higher ups. Which is even more unsettling in some ways because I don’t know who’s involved in the conversation or what exactly is being said.

Could you clarify exactly when you returned to work and when your annual leave year ends?

I'm reading it as you had the opportunity to take your leave last year but they've allowed you to carry it into the new annual leave year. If that's the case, it's them who have messed up by not being clear on the rules.

I guess the issue might be that if you have every Friday as AL, does it prevent your colleagues being able to take a week off? But if that's the case your manager should never have agreed to it in the first place.

Where I work you can only transfer a weeks leave so I took most of mine before mat leave and a week after I returned.

It’s the done thing at my work to take it, and to take it however you like. I did 9 months mat leave and 1 month annual leave at the end both times - meant I got one full paycheck before the first nursery bill was due!

I think you're overthinking this op.

You're allowed to do it so just crack on. It would be unreasonable of them not to consider your promotion based on this so I shouldn't worry about this.

I've known women use it as you have or tack it on to end of mat leave in one go.

They've probably never done it this way before, that's all.

If there's an unwritten rule then it's for your employer to make you aware of it.
In some industries the employer will want you to add the leave to the end of your ML and then come back "properly" without carried over leave to factor in. I work in law and this has been in the ML policy of both firms I've worked for, because it makes billable hours targets easier to set and measure.

When I had my youngest I transferred part of my ML to my husband so I could return to work and he stayed home for a couple more months. It would have made no sense for me to use my annual leave then, the aim was to spread any leave out as much as possible to delay baby having to be in nursery full time, so no point us both being in leave at the same time! Before I went on ML my line manager agreed I could use my accrued AL to take a day off a week once my husband's parental leave was finished. By the time I was about to return we had a new departmental boss and he and HR put a lot of pressure on me to take my leave in a block before returning or for them to buy back the leave from me. Neither was what I wanted and I "won" because I had it in writing from my previous manager.

Sorry that's a really long anecdote but my point is it might be the "done thing" but if you have an agreement to vary the done thing then you are doing nothing wrong. As it was, I took a day off a week as agreed until the leave was used up, then back to 5 days. Boss did some face pulling because he had to recalculate my targets but he got over it and it wasn't held against me.

I returned in September, so yes I could have taken a day a week off from then til December, and only carried over about 10 days.

But it’s a bit late for that!

Fair enough that’s useful to hear actually I am an over thinker!

I work in HR and I’ve had loads of people do this, I’ve worked in 6 different companies in my 20 years and 4 completely different industries. What you have done is totally ok. Don’t overthink it, someone at your work is being an arse.

At my old workplace most people generally took their accrued leave at the end of their MAT leave. However you could take it however you wanted as far as I know. I know one lady who used it just like holidays and would just book time off and it did cause a bit of difficulty regarding staffing for the business but she was still allowed to take it. Management did then ask that accrued MAT leave was taken with prior agreement from then on.

I know one lady who is due to return in May is planning on taking 1 day a week off until September as she is struggling to secure childcare for that day. Her Nursery have assured her that her child will have a full time place in September and as we know this is happening it is no problem at all.

I took all of mine. Yes it is the done thing to take it. Don't be a pushover, and take what you are legally entitled to!!

No it's not. Take the leave that you've accrued. I tagged mine on the end of May leave so I was off for 13 months

There shouldn't be any unwritten rules around things that are specified in your employment contract, or documents that form part of it, like company annual leave policies. Most companies allow carry over of up to 5 days annual leave to the next holiday year. Even if your company does not, they have agreed an exception for you in writing, so you are doing nothing wrong.

Most people I have known have tacked annual leave onto the end of their maternity leave, as they wished to have longer off; but one woman I know did exactly what you have and took every Friday off for months. It worked very well for her, as it allowed her to be part-time without a drop in salary and it really didn't impact the rest of the team.

I think your manager has behaved poorly by telling you about 'push back'.They need to manage this both up and down rather than telling you something that is only going to worry you.

Everyone either rtakes their annual leave or gets it paid out, I don't know anyone who would forfeit it.

However, the four day a week thing is quite contentious and i tmay well be that while your direct manager thought it was okay, he is now getting push back because actually, it can be very inconvenient for the business having someone who is supposed to be full time now, basically, working a four-day week. The sense I get is that it was quite common for a while but now a lot of businesses don't like i tbecause it puts too much pressure on the rest of the team and/or impacts delivery and production times.

which I think is fair enough - we often joked in our team that taking a long weekend was more stress than a 2 week holiday because for a long weekend you basically still had to do all your usual amount of work, just in a shorter time frame. Whereas for a 2 week holiday you either just completely made it clear certain projects or tasks would be on hold and for other things you handed them over to colleagues. But when you work a four day week, that doesn't happen so productivity slips.

So it's not fair that this was agreed and now you're getting pushback, but I can see why there's unhappiness.

@ForSnugLimeExpert I understand it's too late. I just think they've realised, too late, that they should have instructed you to take it earlier. I wouldn't give much headspace to the idea it'll disadvantage any promotion for you.

At my work, we try to strike a balance between using some at the beginning or end of the mat leave so there are not too many to try and use when back to work in a normal pattern. For example we wouldn't want anyone to have 4 weeks of annual leave to take in the first 2 months of returning to work. Equally if they wanted a slightly slower reintroduction by using a day a week for 2 months that is fine too.

For larger blocks of time it is easier for everyone to tag it on to mat leave as the normal cover is still in place.

Essentially there is a conversation about the best plan for the returning parent and the employer and we try to reach a compromise.

Isn't there also a law about minimum amounts of paid time off that has to be taken in a year, IE they can't allow you to roll over days that mean you drop below that minimum? (Not an HR person though)

To be crystal clear though, there is no unwritten rule that you just lose your accrued annual leave.

The nuance is that how and when it is utilised varies workplace by workplace

Mine was added onto next year's annual leave. HR said that was standard policy. My manager kicked up a stink when I tried to book all my annual leave for the following year, as it left her short staffed?! She didn't understand why I didn't use it as part of my maternity leave? But HR were adamant that I did it the correct way.

I took my annual leave before returning so had an extra month off. Think that's pretty normal

If you can't take it see if they'll pay you for it. Otherwise insist you take it