Can you line manager be the same band

[Blissday123]

I’m a band 8a in the NHS, manage my own team within a wider general team who we don’t have much to do with on a daily basis. My line manager (who I trained as a student) is also a band 8a and in this new role managing the wider general team. I used to report to the head of service but she had to delegate her work to this new manager.
I don’t feel I get any mentoring or advice I need anymore as I am clinically more experienced than her. This band 8a line manager does my appraisals and annual leave etc but I dont get any direction or ideas. I could ask for anything and she would agree so there’s not much of a debate. Does this restructure seem right to you?

It wouldn't happen where I work - the line manager has to be at least one grade higher.

That’s what I always thought. The lazy part of me could say I have an easy life but I don’t think I would progress with anything if do. My partner thinks it makes sense as a stricture as she does more line managing of an overall team but I still manage a team too so it doesn’t make sense to me? Should I kick off?

I've had it before several times and whilst it's not best practise, it's not 'wrong' and presumably someone in your workplace knew what they were doing (in terms of your structure) to make that call.

Not in nhs but this has hpoened in my workplace (higher education)

I had it in a previous role, nhs. But they put me at the top of the band pay scale straight away

It happens where I work.

i agree it’s not wrong, but I don’t think it works quite well for my career progression. I will stir aome shit up if I start complaining, I’m a bit paranoid if I might come across unreasonable. Am I?

Its relatively unusual, but not unknown. Theres nothing untoward about it, presumably the roles have been evaluated and the people management aspect is clearly not kicking the manager role up a grade in this instance. Your point about development/mentoring is a valid one however and you could explore that with her in terms of how you access these in other ways.

@Blissday123 honestly I don't see how complaining is going to get you anywhere. They've made that decision for a reason, and you likely don't want it to get back to your new boss that you have complained!

Can you not reframe it? If you're worried about career progression, use it as a reason to reach out to more experienced people for mentorship and build your network. And work towards the next promotion ASAP to get out of the situation!

I manage someone who is a Band 7, the same as me. When I was first managing them, they were top Band 7, I was mid band 7 - raging!

I work for the NHS .
I'm band 7 my line manager is also band 7.never had any problems

We have teams where managers would be managing people on the same / higher bands, the managers job is to manage the team, they might have specialist practitioners who are on a higher band due to their clinical roles. I'd expect if they needed specific clinical supervision they would be able to access that from alternative routes if their manager wasn't appropriate.

My manager is a band up from me but while lovely, is an AHP while I'm a nurse and has never worked in my very specialist area so there is lots of stuff I know more about than her related to my team / role. It's not an issue, she takes my advice when it's my area of expertise and gives me her advice when I need something from her as a manager. I get clinical supervision elsewhere. Equally, I have nurses in my team who have been qualified longer than me / have experience in areas I don't, despite being lower banded, I take their advice!

Which is a long winded way of saying banding doesn't matter much really. If the manager has the skills needed to do the role, then this is fine, if not then it's a problem. If the role has been lower banded to save money despite having a level of responsibility which would meet a higher band - then that's not great but not a shocker either given funding right now.

@LittleRedRidingHoody I worded that badly. Of course I wouldn’t complain like that, I’d be professional. I would just use the career progression thing as a potential need for an external mentor ans maybe she can still do the AL
requests etc.

Do you not have routes to access that anyway? Coaching? Women in leadership in the NHS? There are a few different things around that could offer you some external / alternative support.

I'm an 8a (non clinical) managing 8a clinicians - but they get their clinical/professional supervision from an 8b.

Is she providing you with supervision? I think that would be the only bit that would concern me.

Pretty common where I work. Not always helpful though.

@VerityUnreasonble
That wouldn't be ok for me. You have experience and she takes your advise. Nope. Sorry.

For line management, fine, for clinical supervision you should be supported by someone with more clinical experience (unless you are top end of the scales, in which case it's peer supervision)

Thanks, this has provided some external POV from different Trusts (who knows could be the same! lol) Very good point here. Im an AHP and have line managed nurses etc so I understand that structure too. However in that role I didn’t provide clinical supervision to the nurses, it was purely the line management - I was mindful they are a nurse and I am not so I focused on the recruitment, disciplinaries etc.
Now, the problem is I now have no clinical supervision from anyone else formally. I have access to people I can ask questions to etc but no clinical mentor. However I can find someone as it’s a tertiary centre.
She is new to line management and I have given her space, respected the new change of structure for x time so I tried not to step on her toes but-she tends to agree with everything I say or doesn’t have the clinical insight. we are personally good friends which muddies the waters too and I don’t want things to affect that.
I think the summary is, I should have some further discussions about how this structure works for me personally.

Apologies, I don't understand which bit of that isn't ok with you? Maybe I didn't express myself well. My managers job is not the same as mine, I don't tell her how to do her job, but I certainly advise about the specific issues that are in my area of expertise.

She wouldn't, and would have no need, to know about some of the service specific documentation we use, for example, so if there was a request for a policy on documentation I would need to advise on what would be appropriate to go in it. Drafting the policy might however be her job which I wouldn't comment on. The instructions to implement this policy would then come from her and if I need advice on how to do this I'd ask her. This isn't a real example but it's late and I was trying to think of a way to express it that made sense.

Maybe this doesn't translate outside the NHS, but I work in Pharma. I have line reports who are the same grade as me and one who is a grade higher. Scientifically, they are at least as experienced, but they do not have managerial qualities. I am happy to defer to them when it comes to the science but they defer to me when it comes to process. It really does depend on roles and organisational structure.

Yes that makes sense, that translate the same! Thanks

i basically have as much clinical experience and have similar managerial qualities. We have gone for similar jobs in the past.

I work for an "Arm's Length Body" public organisation. We have some teams where the lowest management grade (Team Leader) is the same as the highest technical grade in that team.