Pay disparity

[UndersoldMyself]

I changed jobs last year. It’s a demanding job in an organisation that calls itself public sector but isn’t really. I moved from the public sector. I was asked during recruitment what salary I expected and asked for £70k, which they agreed. It was advertised as £60-80k, and I thought £70k would recognise my level of professional quals and 20 years experience.

Two others were recruited at the same time. I have accidentally discovered that the other external person (10 years experience and newly qualified to a lower level) is on £80k, and the internal person, who was newly promoted into a new role they hadn’t done before, is on the same as me, because they guarantee a certain percentage of the reference point for the role and so nobody would ever be paid less than £70k. I’m effectively on the bottom of the pay scale. To add insult to injury, another new person is starting next month and it’s been described as a “development role” for them as they don’t have all the skills or experience needed, and they will be earning the same as me.

I feel completely undervalued and demotivated. My role is demanding and I give it 110%. In my end of year review my feedback was that I was “brilliant”. I have my pay conversation with my boss later this week and expect a pay increase of a couple of percentage points. How do I get across this point without sounding grabby? Or did I miss my chance because I didn’t ask for more last year? The job market is hard at the moment, so I don’t have an ace card, and I enjoy my job, but this feels very unfair.

Any advice?

Ask for a pay rise, obviously. Not a couple of % but at least £80k. Ask for more.

Set out the reasons why you are WORTH that. Not emotional or personal stuff, just the very good business reasons why your experience and expertise is worth £83k. Itemise. Give examples. The closest to a personal reason you give is that the department's taking on improvers at your salary, yet you are the one who will be improving them, thus adding even more value to the team.

I've always found it's best to write this long, almost like a little presentation, then condense it. You don't want to be over-explaining. Provide yourself with succinct material so that you're confident in your ability to support your argument, should you be questioned.

Remember to listen in your meeting. Pick up on any hints that you're worth more. Ignore any negatives unless they're meaningful challenges - if there are any challenges, assess whether they're actually invitations to make a promise leading to promotion!

From what you've said, they are looking to review your package upwards. For god's sake don't talk them down!! Be confident in your value. Ask for more.

Good luck 🙂

This isn’t about what other people are paid. This is about what you’re paid and the market rate for your role.

Others may bring other related skills or experience that you don’t and have used that as part of their negotiations.

(and fact of life spoiler for you - once you’re out of low level roles, pay disparity is standard).

Thank you. Everyone gets a pay conversation so I don’t read anything into this meeting being scheduled. I think the average increase is expected to be 3% with a max of 7% but I’ll definitely be pushing for a review.

Ask for more money with reasons why you deserve it ( not just someone else getting paid more because they negotiated better ) as an aside are all the others male?

Is the person on £80k a man?

When I interviewed and got offered my current role they initially matched the salary I was on. Not sure if they thought I was inflating my pay on the CV or if they just picked up I was desperate to leave (I was, but I was desperate not stupid).

I rejected their first offer and thanked them for the opportunity.

Within 3 hours they counter offered for £6k more, putting me on £75k which I accepted.

Knowing what I know now about the company and pay scales I probably could have asked for another £5k. There's guys I directly report to on £130k.

I'm just focusing on doing my job well and getting a reputation for diligence and competence. I find the first pay review chats are the hardest because you don't know what scope they have.

If I was you I'd ask for 10% but expect them to offer 7%.

We’re all female, but the new starter next month is male. Highest paid came from private sector and was used to this sort of set up, and I suspect negotiated hard up front rather than thinking rewards would come later.

You say you feel undervalued, but you undersold yourself by showing you were willing to accept a lower salary.

You need to ask for a pay rise. When’s the next pay review taking place? Bring it up before then.

It would be irrelevant unless the reason for the disparity is because he's a man - and it clearly isn't. They asked the OP what salary they wanted and gave it to her. Lesson learned - ask for the top and be prepared to negotiate.

The number one lesson for pay is you will never be in a stronger position to negotiate than at the point of job offer. Always push for more than you dare hope for at that point. Men always do this - women less so.

I’m more experienced and qualified than anyone else in the role. That’s recognised.

I’ve been in senior roles for 20 years but always within a transparent pay structure. I don’t really give a toss if it’s “standard”, it’s unfair.

I thought I was pitching myself at the middle of the band. It was a false premise because they couldn’t have paid me less than £70k.

As per my OP, the discussion is tomorrow.

How profitable is your organisation?

Mine is doing well it subject to cost saving measures at the moment to ensure no deficit in future due to some industry challenges compost way. As a result everyone already employed will go up a pay point but no way will they get more than that, even if they are worth it. It's a hard no from the executive team.

When I came on board, I negotiated my salary. Pushed a lot harder than I was comfortable with but got it. Still slightly undersold myself though. Irrelevant now as I've been promoted into a different pay scale again.

Sometimes I feel all salaries should be in the public domain. It would stop this confusion and really help things like the gender pay gap. I understand the counter arguments though.

Present your case - why do you deserve more? What are you doing for the company ?

Don't mention the other employees just focus on you.

Ask for 80 and expect to get around 76. Your colleagues on 80 will probably go to early eighties so your gap will be slightly shorter then next year aim for 85 and you will start to get closer to your colleagues.

Lesson learnt though my dh did similar in his first big pay leap the range was 50-60k he went 55 they countered 48 settled on 53. He was annoying because he wanted 55. Now he goes 10% higher than his worth.

There are no pay points.

I think it’s the fact that I thought I was coming in at the middle of the band, but the reality is that I didn’t. So I think the argument that I should be on more than a new promotee is sound.

It’s not a profit making org, per se, and there are cost challenges (due to bloat) but I have enabled savings of upwards of £5m this year and could easily save them £25-30m next year, if not more.

Lead with that then OP.

I've managed to get some decent pay rises by emphasising the value I bring to the business both in terms of productivity (saving cost) and fees I bring in.

I'd imagine for a manager there's nothing more difficult than negotiating a salary review with someone who knows exactly what they are worth.

It sounds like you’re frustrated by two things.

1. Not negotiating as well as you’ve now realised you could have.
2. Salaries not being formulaic.

Everyone perception of ‘fair’ is different, and given no two people bring exactly the same thing to an organisation then everyone’s perspective of what’s ‘fair’ will be different.

As part of the negotiation, it’s helpful to know whether you could get more elsewhere. It is a sector where there are plenty of good applicants around it’s harder to negotiate. If the job market is active and you can demonstrate that then your manager can frame you as a flight risk and that can make it easier for them to get greater rides sanctioned.

(I’m also pretty sure that you’re wrong about the bottom of the band never being available. In organisations I’ve worked in there have been minimum increases for a standard promotion, that sometimes took you beyond base of band depending on where you came from. Engineers moving into management / lead grades often got it as their technical band was close to the higher graded more generalist band. But the background value of having those expertise within the more senior roles even if not directly used day to day was recognised).

In my organisation there is a point against the reference point which is the guaranteed minimum for new hires and promotions. In my scale that’s £70k. Unfortunately, when they advertised, they used what I assume is an old pay scale and so the bottom appeared to be £60k. But it couldn’t have been. Because the actual minimum was £70k.

Unfortunately the truth is you undersold yourself and under-negotiated.

Just tell them that with hindsight you undersold yourself and you've now realised that the job is a higher level and so you'd like to ask to renegotiate up to £80. Have the courage to just say it. Then it's said. What are they gonna do? What's the worst that can happen? You barter and meet half way.

So, meeting got split into two parts. I don’t think they were expecting the challenge so asked for some time to “see what they could do” and came back with a £10k pay increase going forward plus a £8k as a “bonus” to address the disparity going back to my appointment. Bonus has just hit my bank account (minus a wedge of tax) and pay increase implemented from March instead of April so I’ll see some extra there.

pretty pleased with that.

That's really good news! Well done.

Most companies will only consider upping your pay for 2 reasons - to GET you or to KEEP you. Do either of those scenarios apply? Do they think you'll happily just plod along, maybe due to the abysmal job market? If so, good luck.

I used to work somewhere where pretty much the only way to get a pay rise was to get an offer from elsewhere and then threaten to resign, they'd usually counter offer.

And it can be standard to pay 'to the market' so if there is a shortage of a particular role one year compared to the previous, absolutely normal for employers to pay more for someone with potentially less experience and certainly less service than existing staff.
Not saying any of this is right but when people are viewed as a commodity, the same way as a raw material, for example, by unscrupulous employers, this is what can happen.

I missed your update - well done and glad your employer is not viewing you merely as a raw material

Hopefully lesson learned to negotiate harder.
Sitting around pacing nice thinking you’ll get what you deserve because the world is fair is a terribly naïve I’m afraid.