References issue - order of things. AIBU

[GollyGos]

Been offered a Chief Exec role (first CEO role) of a small organisation (under 10 ppl). We agreed salary over phone after interview. Since then I have provided 2 referrees from previous employers (followed up and fine).

They have been pushing for reference for my current employer but I have asked to see a) contract and b) up to date financial info about the organisation before handing in my notice. We seem to be a in a stalemate. They keep asking for the phone number of my current boss. I keep asking to see the contract. Which one of us is being unreasonable?

I don't want to tell my boss i've got a new job offer without seeing the terms of that job - I might not want to move. I might get in a situation where i hvae to tell my boss that I'm trying to leave and then not leave. They can send me the contract first now surely and not sign it until they're happy with the ref? Can anyone help me understand if I'm being unreasonable?

I think they would usually send terms of employment and/or contract to sign "subject to satisfactory references" - that's always been my experience, anyway.

Tell them that you cannot share current employer information without first seeing written confirmation of the offer on the table, they should understand that!

thanks for the reply @mousetrap101 - they have offered me the job in writing but i don't have a contract - so all i know is salary and they want me to start asap. i have gone back to say i want to see a contract before handing in my notice and they've written back today asking for my boss' phone number.

This sounds like a possible miscommunication?

"Could I take a look at the contract to check terms" is different to "I need to sign that contract before you do a reference" but both are reasonable interpretations of "I want to see a contract" which is too vague so go back to them, ideally by phone so no misunderstandings can happen, and explain your position just like you have done here, and that you understand that the job offer is subject to satisfactory references, and then they can explain their position (which is not an unusual one) and you can both come to an understanding and sort something out.

I once received a contract after accepting a job and it had a clause that was totally unreasonable and I couldn't accept, so I went back and turned down the job (they were unwilling to remove it), so I do understand your caution. There must be a way forward that works for everyone.

Is all of this going on via email? You should ring them instead. Your current boss needs to hear from you that you are leaving and no one sensible would resign without having the next job sorted. My experience has always been that I have formally accepted the role (so have seen terms) subject to satisfactory references.

Is there something specific going on here? In what way would having the "contract" (which is actaully a lot more than the written statement of terms and conditions) change your mind about the job. Because it does seem that you are dragging your heels and in their position I would be wondering why? Normally a confirmed job offer is (a) not made until all the references have been taken up, and (b) not really worth much since it can be rescinded rather easily. If this is, therefore, about something specific such as leave or pension - just ask them. Most places I know would either issue the "contract" once all the references and checks are done; or on the first day of work (which is when the law says they must provide it).

If I was your new potential employer, I would be worried that there was some big issue about them talking to your current boss and it was likely that his reference for you was going to be very poor. That is what I would think if you weren't happy for me to take up that reference once I've already offered you the job and salary was agreed.

As that isn't the case, from your OP, then I think you really need to phone and speak about your concerns and emphasise this isn't the reason to the new potential employer - and explain your concerns – otherwise I think you are giving them quite bad signals currently, to be honest.

I'm about to become CEO. They are in a tricky financial situation. I want to see the latest accounts. is that unreasonable? my reference is absolutely fine - but i'm about to take over an organisation and be responsible for its growth. i feel it's reasonable to understand the finances/size of the org/potential for redundacy process - and also to have an offer letter which sets out the terms of employment. i have been advised by other CEOs in my sector that it's entirely reasonable to ask for up to date financial information. do you guys disagree?

Given the role what you have asked for is entirely reasonable. You want to do your due diligence that the turnaround they need is achievable and that you are happy with the broader terms of the contract before you resign your current position.

I completely agree with you that you don’t want anyone communicating with your current employer before you are definitely taking the role. And that you need to be the one to yell your current employer, not them.

I agree with others that a phone call at this point may cut through this better than emails.

But that wasn't what you posted above, was it? You didn't once mention asking for the accounts. You said you wanted the contract before giving them the telephone number of your current boss. Nothing about the up to date financial information. And as for redundancy, for two years it's pretty irrelevant - you wouldn't qualify for redundancy anyway.

To be honest it sounds like you and this organisation are not as good a fit as they thought you were. Taking over a small organisation is always going to be a risky endeavour, and it doesn't sound like risk is something you are comfortable with. And they must be wondering why you are "hiding" any contact with your current employer. You are correct that it is fair enough to ask about their finances before you accept an offer - they are right that they should have your current employers reference before they agree to you working for them.

From my original post @EmmaMaria

"They have been pushing for reference for my current employer but I have asked to see a) contract and b) up to date financial info about the organisation before handing in my notice"

I am comfortable with risk. I think it's fair enough to want to understand the level of risk. And also if it's a viable organisation. I can bring them back from the brink - that's why I got the job - but I need to know there is money in the bank to pay the staff for at least 3 months.

Sorry I did miss that second bit - but it is still fair enough not to be willing to share that until they have your current employers reference. How do they know you aren't under investigation for fraud? Or that you won't misuse that information. You still don't have to work there even if you have passed all the checks. If you can't agree at this stage between the two of you, I would worry how you will both manage a really serious issue.

You are being completely reasonable, especially at CEO level. They are being unreasonable expecting you to let your current employer know before you’ve seen full terms. Your rationale for seeing accounts is also very logical. I’d speak to whoever the most senior person there is that you’re dealing with, surely they’d immediately get it. I’d be hoping that it’s just someone in the middle dealing with you who’s not quite briefed.

It’s your livelihood and taking the job is the risk you’re taking, nobody should be expecting you to risk the old job for the sake of the actual contract.