Job Interview - Is this a weird thing to happen?

[Momoftwoscallywags]

Just venting really.

Had a job interview at a secondary school yesterday for an administrative role. Expectation for interview was the usual tour, test and then interview. I did the test first ( they had all the interviewees on a rota i.e.while one was on tour, the other was testing, while another was interviewing).

I opened the test and the very first question basically said please put these tasks in order of importance, but there was no list of tasks attached?

Checked the format of the other questions and these were laid out with the questions on the left page with the examples/information to be used on the right page. I did the other questions and then came back to ponder the still completely blank right page for question 1?
I came to the conclusion that either : 1)I had been emailed about the task prior to the interview and missed it, but I did think this unlikely, 2) Someone had messed up the test, or 3) it had been done on purpose!

So after the test I pointed out the missing information and explained I couldn't answer the question because of this issue. The person who was looking after me made a dramatic show of checking the document, which prompted me to ask if I had maybe missed an email about the task? She said this was unlikely so I straight up asked if this was a trick question? Had the information been missed on purpose? She then said if I thought that what would I do in real life?

I was flabbergasted, in real life no professional person worth their salt would mess someone around by asking them to do a task without giving them access to the required information. That's just plain malicious.

Anyway, I said if that was the case I would contact the person who was supposed to provide the information and ask where is was and when to expect it. She then smiled and admitted that the question was indeed a trick question.

Now red flags are going off, as I have just realised that they have purposely tried to set the interviewees up to fail. Who does that?
It made me question their work culture/ethos and I began to wonder how toxic it was and how far it went up the management chain.

In real life, in any other situation, I would have challenged the thinking behind this scenario but I chickened out purely because my kids go to this school and, if the management was toxic, I don't want them looking in my kids direction. (I am a coward, I know)

So has this happened to any one else? Admittedly the last time I did clerical testing was in 2016, so I was just wondering if this is a normal thing nowadays?

Oh that’s awful! Very mean! I would
hate that - I have an interview tomorrow but hopefully they won’t do that to me! I’d be feeling too anxious to deal with it - well done for keeping calm and level headed.
did they offer you the job?

Hi OP

What a shit thing to do. Somebody’s clever idea aimed at psychological profiling to find the independent thinker - I bet they got it out of a “management” course.

Not sure I’d want the job now.

That's shit

I wouldn't assume it was toxic. I think the 'trick' was to find how you would deal with that situation and test your initiative. Sounds like you did well to assess and respond in the way you did.

A lot of time in schools is spent replying to emails chasing stuff - and saying that you'll be happy to do it as a priority - just as soon as the chaser sends you the information (that they should have sent you three weeks ago and you've asked them for it four times already).

Nearly as much time is spent dealing with people who just didn't read the requests and never thought to mention that the information is missing.

So I understand why they'd want somebody to draw attention to missing information.

Interviews are as much about you finding out about the organisation and culture and whether you wish to work there as it is about the employer seeking to find the right fit.

that is absolutely pants what they have done and sets you up to fail. Interviews should be nurturing to get the best out of candidates.

big red flags for me I’m afraid

Been in recruitment for a long time - that is ridiculous behaviour and definitely a red flag. They probably wanted to find out how you would respond in a real life, common for the role, scenario. There are better ways of testing this, like asking the question directly or setting up a role play. Their choice to put a trick question in the test makes me wonder if they thought they would have loads of applications for the role and they felt they could afford to piss some people off. Basically I would read that as saying they need someone quite confident, thick skinned and able to speak up in situations; and that if you can't be that person in an interview scenario they're not interested.

Sounds like you handled the situation admirably. I guess the question is if you want to work somewhere that has that kind of attitude to it's staff.

Sadly not new. I've had several interviews from decades ago where you were given 30 or 50 questions of ridiculous things. Thankfully I read through the questions, turn over the sheet and check the back and then start the questions. This was advice from a teacher over exams, it's sound advice. Every single time the last question, on the back of the sheet is to just answer number 1 which is write your name in a particular area of the page.

It's a time management and detail question but the amount of people in the group interview who sit there filling out the numerous questions all felt tricked and annoyance which is understandable.

Your quiz sounds similar in it's a how you react to stress under pressure. It sounds like you answered it just fine if it helps.

Then there was the psycological profiling questions, for admin jobs, haven't been subjected to that for years thankfully!

Tbh my assumption would be that she screwed up and missed the tasks, and was just styling it out!

I think it’s quite reasonable. The purpose is to see how you would react in that situation.

It’s certainly not “malicious” for someone to omit information; it’s far more common that it’s done unintentionally because they’ve forgotten to add an attachment or something.

It sounds like you handled it well. It was definitely correct to mention it, and I agree with getting on with the tasks that you could do instead of bringing this to their attention immediately.

My thought exactly!

They cocked up and tried to cover up!

@Momoftwoscallywags I remember trick questions from English and maths O level days.
I would have written something not witty about how to deal with tricky questions and lack of background papers convey a philosophical outlook on tasking ad lib. Id probably be sacked before the next stage never mind a job offer.
You did well. It's a great question.
If it was omitted in error there's a vacancy there I'm sure
@Momoftwoscallywags best of luck 🤞 x

Attention to detail in school admin is critical, yet sadly, so few people employed in school admin actually seem to possess this skill. I'm an ex-school data manager. Much of my time was spent dealing with problems caused by staff. Who couldn't be bothered or who didn't care enough to get the data right in the first place. So well done. You had a query, asked the question politely, and received an acceptable answer. I really hope you get the job. You sound diligent, detailed, focused, and willing to ask questions. Exactly the qualities that are needed.

Keep applying for more roles OP. In the future you could be on your way to work going past the school and thinking I'm glad I'm not there (I have this, so glad I didn't pass an interview for a place where the staff were all awkward with each other, gut feelings count).

Years ago I had an interview where they asked me how I would deal with a specific issue. I told them. They changed the goalposts and I had to do it again. This went on a few times, until there were no more solutions that were ' acceptable'

It turned out there was no solution that was acceptable. They wanted to see how I reacted at failing

I pointed out I had only ' failed' because perfectly normal professional solutions had been deemed unacceptable for the purpose of the interview. Then I picked up my handbag and left:)

@EATmum

Yes me too!

Surely the sensible thing to do would have been to ask the person supervising the test for the missing information as soon as you realised it was missing, not wait till the test was over? It’s a mean trick to play, but if a similar situation arose during the working day, you wouldn’t wait till all your other tasks were finished to chase up the information you need.

Well exactly @LoserWinner - I would have got up immediately and said it looks like there's a page missing ...

I'm also confused why this is a "trick" question and a sign of a "toxic" environment and not a way of flushing out how long you would spend pondering why you don't have the information you clearly need and somehow blaming yourself rather than simply pointing out that you can't do a task as you don't have all of the information and asking if they have the missing information.

Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you. Just to clarify a few things. I was left alone while I did the test, so there was no one to ask until the person looking after me actually came back when my allocated test time was up and, of course, in the real world, I would have spoken up immediately.

And covering the point made about the behaviour being malicious. Of course it is malicious, they intended to do harm by setting someone up to fail. It seemed to pass them by that this behaviour creates a lack of trust and if they think, as a potential employer who wants to recruit the best, that it is okay to do this to someone from the “outside”, it begs the question about how they are treating their current workforce. You do have to wonder at the poor judgement shown by the leadership when they accept this type of behaviour as a positive thing. Especially in a school, image them doing this to the children.

I didn’t get the job. I crashed and burned in the interviews as I kept my answers to their questions short and sweet and didn’t make any attempt to sell myself as I was now on the lookout for other toxic traits. And I noticed plenty unfortunately, with the final nail in the coffin being, when one of the interviewers felt it was okay to comment on my accent. (For the record I moved from one part of the UK to another 10 years ago, so my accent is completely out of place for the area I live in. Imagine someone with a Liverpudlian accent moving to Aberdeen)

Any decent HR department would have flailed him alive for even thinking something like that but to actually make a comment on something that is very personal to an individual, something that they cannot change without a lot of work and effort (I did vaguely wonder if this could fall under a protected characteristic?) and something they shouldn’t have to change anyway, went some way to explaining the red flags I was seeing everywhere. There seemed to be an awful lot of unconscious bias going on.

I just found the whole experience very weird from start to finish and I thank you all for helping me put it into perspective.

Oh, and I hope your interview went okay @Tiredandneedtogotobed

I think it's probably for the best that you didn't get offered the role, OP.

It sounds as though you'd find it almost impossible to maintain something resembling sanity in a school environment, as things like that would happen on a daily basis - and interpreting it as outright malicious, combined with speaking in a (for example) Scouse accent and being asked about it being taken as on a par with racial discrimination, would make for a very brief but explosive term of employment.

The company sounds very weird. You dodged a bullet there

Now red flags are going off, as I have just realised that they have purposely tried to set the interviewees up to fail. Who does that?

I dont see it like that. I think they may have a lot of experience of people being asked to do things with incomplete information and want to see if you will fall apart if it happens to you. Seems quite sensible to me,

I understand the accent thing, I'm a Midlander in the South and it gets mentioned frequently. HR won't do a thing about it unless you can combine it into a bullying claim.

I've had no end of bad interviews where my accent became an issue. From pissing themselves laughing until I got up and left to asking me if I knew who my father was

There is no end to what people will say when they dislike your accent is there.

Me too. A very very long time ago I was allowed to recruit a temp, and needed them to be competent with Excel and Pivot tables. hat was the brief to the recruitment agent. Shortlist of 3 candidates. Set a little task - we had practiced - 5 mins for us, 10 mins for candidates. 1 panicked - apparently didnt really know Excel and didnt have a clue about pivot tables; the 2nd talked non-stop about how this was an entry level position for him to enter into the industry (investment banking) - it really wasn't AT ALL. The 3rd cant remember. But I was quite surprised that these candidates and the recruitment agent thought it was quite OK for them to turn up NOT ABLE to do the job properly.

Schools always set tasks. Mine at my first school was to pull out data from a spreadsheet - yes there were errors in the spreadsheet. Luckily I have good attention to detail so spotted that, corrected, and continued. (And was offered the job). I think if the OP wants to work in education she might need to research a little more on expectations. It isn't toxic. Many other things in a school are!