Is this constructive dismissal ?

[Tigerbabby]

Hello there everyone

I need some advice I am in a desperate situation and I don't know what to do. I feel lost.

I am a nurse and work in an emergency response role, I attend medical emergencies across a large manufacturing site. I received an intial training course when I started 6 years ago but no formal induction. My manager said she didn't have time.

We have been short staffed since I can remember, which means I often don't get my contractual protected one hour unpaid break, so I have been either paid it or given time owing in lieu. This has been going on for three years now and I am getting fed up with the expectation that I do this. I have raised this several times with management and told we have no staff so nothing can be done. I reached out to HR and they just regurgitated what my manager said.
I raised a grievance and in the early stages of this.

On top of this , I have asked a few times for some clinical training as I have told them I don't feel competent doing certain things , I asked a senior manager who told me back in September it would need to go to governance and funding. ( the clinical skill i need to do is actually necessary for my job ) I have chased this and heard nothing.

I have said to my manager I have concerns over the clinical framework we have and risk assessments to be met with ' get back in your box'

I have said several times that myself and the rest of my team need better training etc as we arent competent and these requests continue to be ignored. I have been asked to deliver some clinics involving diagnostic equipment which I have never had training on , I was told by a manager ' it's just pressing buttons , you don't need training ' this was a year ago and the new starters now have this training but I have been told they can't afford for me to go off and do the training and it's just for the new staff.

To make matters worse we had a significant clinical incident on Monday and myself and my team were finding it challenging and I have uncovered a teams meeting that was recorded in error where my manager who was aware of the incident and stayed in her office, is heard to say , well I was going to support (me) and the the team but they need to stand on their own two feet as I won't always be here.

I actually feel disgusted by this and I feel I cannot stay there working there anymore. To top things off my mum has been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and these events at work are just the last thing I need right now ! Any advice or opinions would be welcome. Thank you.

No, it isn't constructive dismissal.

It isn't acceptable though and you should have joined and be involving a union.

Hello , I have now involved a union whom has initiated a greivance with regards to the lunch breaks. Thank you for taking the time to reply

They should be taking action on any part of this which is a H and S issue.

I am sorry to hear your mum is so unwell- that's an awful situation for both of you- really tough.

It is disgusting, OP. I agree with @LuluBlakey1 that you need to be in a union.

Also you need to keep a written record of these incidents offsite, on a personal device not linked to your office technology or in the form of handwritten notes. I thought of suggesting that you make a copy of that Teams meeting to store privately, but that may be illegal and you could easily get caught out, so I think it is a bad idea

I don’t think this is constructive dismissal yet, but it could become constructive dismissal. What you’ve told us would be the background and a written record would be important.

Can you call ACAS from home this week?

Can you change jobs?

Best wishes

Thank you, yes my mums diagnosis as a big shock too as we didn't know she was so unwell as she had kept from all of us.
I have addressed some of these concerns with union , they were shocked with what I told them But they wanted to tackle one at a time. I just feel so desperate to get out of there as its becoming a toxic place to work but I guess I either need to wait it out or hand my notice in and get another job !

I will call ACAS this week. That's really good advice I will do that , i wonder if I can keep a transcript of the teams meeting. Thank you for replying to my post

ACAS may know about your rights (if any) concerning the Teams meeting

Good luck

You need to go back to your employment contract and check what that says about all of the issues.

The lunch break issue sounds like it's being addressed but I think the lack of training and competence as a result are far more concerning and could jeopardise your nursing PIN.

Ideally you would consult an employment solicitor because my first thought would be that you write to your employer and say that you are not competent in certain areas, need training to be so, that has been refused while offered to newer colleagues and leaves you exposed and you will not take responsibility for the consequences (phrased more positively perhaps).

Once it is in writing the onus is on them to react or take responsibility for possible consequences.

However it still leaves you put in a very distressing situation potentially where you are putting someone's life at risk(?) if something happens. I suppose that could be a HSE issue?

Yes absolutely, it puts patients at risk and i feel very vulnerable and that my PIN feels like it is at risk. I worked really hard to get it and I feel I'm being forced into a situation whereby if I stay with this company , I will lose my pin and ultimately no longer able to nurse.

I should have added that I don't want to go l down an employment tribunal route for constructive dismissal but if I left without my notice I wonder if they would want to pursue me for costs by not serving my notice

Get out OP. Get out.

Things will not change, no one cares, you are set up to fail, you will be completely fucked over the minute something goes wrong and that will be that.
Look elsewhere but prepare to find that it will be the same everywhere you go in the NHS.
Look outside the NHS, get onto LinkedIn, industry jobs are the way to go.

Good luck and know that you do not deserve this.

Hi @Tigerbabby . This sounds awful, sorry you’re going through it. Unlikely to be constructive dismissal,but I would worry about your PIN by doing things you aren’t competent to do, even having asked for training and you could be scapegoated if something happens. I would get out of there asap, but I wonder also whether there might be a whistleblower issue- the employer is putting everyone at risk and this needs to be flagged.

Like is to short to be consumed with matters like this. You are getting nowhere and you've certainly tried to improve things.

If you can take time off or leave. Work somewhere where you will be listened to and appreciated. More importantly spend some time with your family.

Thank you to everyone who replied. I think I'm going to hand my notice in and go off with stress and look for another job. Nothing will change there unless the ethos and Management change!

Can you afford this, OP? Why not talk to ACAS first?

I have spoken with ACAS previously and they said the lunch breaks would constitute a fundamental breach of my contract as it has been going on for so long and i tried to resolve it informally. I havent spoken to them about the training/lack of support but i can't really afford it no :( but I feel so desperately unhappy I just can't bear it anymore and will have to use the bit of savings I have to get by.

Please talk to ACAS again before you resign. They may have ideas for you, they may see elephant traps, who knows. They will identify your best interests.