Asked to reduce hours but turned down

[Rose38]

So it's a bit of a long story but basically I do a remote job full time. I have been there less than a year. I really enjoy my job and give my all. But with 2 kids as well I found it quite hard to manage everything. I can just about manage everything but I find that I never have time to fully rest (apart from when I take annual leave). I'm always playing catch up with housework, what the kids need etc.

During my last one to one a few weeks back my manager mentioned that they have finally gotten the OK to recruit. She didn't know how many people she would be allowed though. I thought right here's my chance to ask if I can reduce hours because potentially if they recruit then my hours could be given to a new person. She seemed very positive about it and said she thinks she can make it work and hopefully they will allow her to take one full time person and one part time person. The part time person could pick up the hours I drop.

After this a couple weeks or so later unfortunately I become unwell with very bad sinusitis. I had to call in sick. The doctor gave me antibiotics. By the end of the week I was getting worse so I went back to the GP & she sent me to the hospital to get checked out (in case infection had spread or meningitis). Luckily it is just really bad sinusitis and hospital doctor prescribed stronger antibiotics. All the evidence of this I sent over to my manager. Doctor signed me off for a week. Unfortunately after a week I had yet again gotten worse (possibly because my son had covid and I ended up getting it too). Doctor signed me off for another week & also gave me a few more days of antibiotics and a steriod nasal spray.

Now I let my manager know this. And she said thats fine. And also added a message to say they have spoken to HR re:reducing hours and HR only agreed to let them recruit one new person so I can't reduce my hours.

I don't even understand why this conversation had to happen now and via message. Anyway I found out my friends had had their hours change approved (although theirs was moving days and shifts around). I feel like my manager was angry that I have been off sick for so long so has purposely not made an effort to try and push my hours change through.

I then messaged her much later to ask her if theres a form I can fill to formally request the hours change or someone in HR I can speak to regarding this as I want to state the reason for wanting to reduce hours and also explain why I think it would help the team (if they took on a part timer to do the hours I drop).

Her reponse was well the person to contact is xxx and she's actually the one who confirmed no to your request anyway. You've been here less than 12 months. If you can't do the hours then there is obviously always the option to leave...and then some nonsense about how they obviously don't want me to do that..

After this message there was some back and forth between me and her which looking at it is ridiculous given that I am off sick and she's not the one who decides about the hours.

I then sent the HR lady an email explaining why I want to reduce my hours and explaining how taking on a part time person would also help my team. We constantly have overtime requests and no one really wants to do it because the majority work full time. If we take a part timer, that person would be likely to pick up shifts sometimes.

I've worked in HR in my previous job so I have experience of all of these things. I just feel like my manager is angry I am off sick so now trying to push me out...so disheartening when I work so hard.

So they currently have a ft post (you) and have the OK to recruit another ft post?

How many hours are you looking to drop? Have you looked at who is doing what at home - eg is the kids dad living with you?

Yes, working ft does mean that the usual life stuff then has to be squeezed into fewer hours, but that's par for the course and the trade off is full time pay.

They don't have to accept your request if it doesn't work for the business.

So basically what the manager had originally said is that maybe HR will let her take on a part time person who can pick up the hours I drop. I currently work 40 and would drop to 20.

They are already recruiting so it would be a case of just adding one more person. Yes the training period will obviously be the loss to them as it's time consuming. But the pro to it is that you would have an additional person in the team who could cover overtime and gaps sometimes.

I know they don't have to agree to give me reduced hours but if you can help your colleague and also it helps the team then why would you turn it down?

Someone else in the team worked evenings and they wanted to move to days. No business reason behind this, they just wanted to spend more time with their partner. My manager straight away asked other people in the team if they would swap shifts (change their early to late) to accomodate this person. Someone agreed and this was all put in place. Still to this day we struggle on evenings & have too many people during the day.

My husband does live with me but I'm like Monica from Friends and I tend to want to do everything a certain way so I end up doing everything really.

Healthwise I think dropping hours would also be beneficial for me too. Even though I haven't been in the job long, unfortunately I have had absences. Same reasons.

I will bring these up with HR. Just feeling so gutted that I did so much for them and now they are turning down my request just because I was off sick.

When I work, I don't even leave my desk apart from when I go for my break & school pick up. Everyone else in the team goes to make coffee, feed their cat or all sorts...my friends (who work with me) tell me that I take the job way too seriously.

https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working/applying-for-flexible-working

There is a process to ask for flexible working and it needs to be in writing. They can turn it down if they have a good business reason to do so

Yeah I have seen this. I did put in writing now that I am requesting to reduce my hours. They need to respond accordingly. I think previously because I mentioned it informally, they also responded informally.

Not sure why my manager needed to mention that within 6 to 8 weeks after starting I mentioned I was finding the hours hard. She literally used to ask me every meeting how I am finding the hours so I answered honestly. Also the flexible working law has been in place since shortly after I began my job so me saying I found the hours difficult was something I was allowed to say. Flexible working can be requested from day 1 of a job. I honestly dread to think how little training the managers are given 🙈

You are not looking at it from a managerial perspective with the finances, resource and training plans in mind.

Quite honestly from everything you’ve said, how the part timer “could” do this or “maybe” pick up extra hours or “cover gaps sometimes” there isn’t actually scope for a part time role here.

It doesn’t sound like it would be a wise business decision to recruit a part timer here.

Best you can do is complete a formal flexible working request (no idea why you didn’t do that in the first place rather than all this back and forth with your manager), but if it doesn’t meet the needs of the business (and it sounds like it doesn’t), they can and will refuse it.

You will have to demonstrate how this will be a positive move for them, and not state your own personal reasons. They are not relevant.

As someone has linked you need to do his formally. In an ideal world when you're putting in a flex working request you have informal chats first, agree what will work and then the formal process is a bit of a rubber stamp. However you don't feel like you've had a fair hearing so apply formally and have the meetings and out your case properly. They can still say no and they may well ave good reasons to, but it'll at least take you through the proper channels.

Worth reminding you that your reasons for wanting it are totally irrelevant. Read that guidance carefully for what you should put in.

Manager has approval to increase headcount by one. So an extra part-time position would not fit this. You need to submit a formal request and see what the response will be.

You need to formally request it, they can turn it down with a valid reason but there is a process.

I am surprised the HR person has engaged with discussion about it without this, and your manager is behaving unprofessionally and placing undue pressure on you by messaging you about it while you are ill, rather than talking to you in a 1:1 while you are off sick. All very odd.

2 part-timer staff costs the company more than 1 full-time member.....sometimes salary but all the hidden costs such as double payroll, double appraisals etc.

In my experience if your manager is not on board you will struggle to get HR to agree. Your manager is the person who can see how things will work in practice rather than just in theory.

I set out in bullet points the reasons why my reducing to 4 days would work. My manager fully agreed as did my director. Once it went to HR they signed it off the same day (on a trial period of 6 months).

There's a request to reduce hours and then a request to reduce them by half. That's pretty huge.

I don’t think they’ve necessarily turned down your request because you’re off sick - I think it’s because they feel there’s no business need. They will base their response on profits and business requirements, not just the opinion of one team member.

Take the time you need to get better health wise before you return to work and then maybe just search for a PT position elsewhere.

I don’t think the refusal has absolutely anything to do with your being off sick , your manager said they’d ask HR , they asked and got told no . It’s really not as simple as recruit 2 extra people instead of 1 . At the end of the day you’ve taken on a full time job and less than 12 months later want it to be a half time job , if they had known that you only wanted 20 hrs they likely wouldn’t have employed you .

Yes - the business do need to consider it fairly , but it’s understandable that this doesn’t work for them, dropping to half your hours is a big ask !

You can request again after 12 months - would compressed hours work?

I do agree with you that your manager shouldn’t have relayed this to you whilst you were off sick.

My team's headcount is smaller than other teams in other countries. My company has other teams doing same job but in other countries. For some reason they have given UK less headcount. The amount of work is not much different so this has always been something my manager complained to us about every meeting or one to one we have.

Since I started the job I have done overtime every month myself. Not because I needed the money or anything but because I felt bad for the team to struggle so would just do it. Plus no one else really seems to want to do it. We have a big issue with that. I can understand if it was the odd ocassional month that may need overtime covered because of sudden sickness or something but every single month for it to happen shows we have a shortage of staff.

My manager was so positive about the suggestion initially when we discussed it so for me to have her suddenly back down from it and sound almost hostile in the messages about it seems odd. She always seems to change her behaviour to any of the team when they are off sick..others have noticed this. I wish I could say it's me just being paraniod.

Larger teams in other countries is because its bloody expensive to employ staff in the UK plus all the workplace legislation we have. It is not up to you to decide what is best fir your team - especially if you are not the manager of the team. Unfortunately the business doesn't give a stuff about your homelife, children, elderly parents, etc etc as they employed you to do a job. You either do the job on the terms you agreed when you were hired or you find another job if they don't want to cut your hours because it doesn't suit the needs of the business. Harsh but that's the way it is I'm afraid.

Yeah I'm not saying they have to give me the hours I wanted. I just wanted my request to be dealt with the proper way. Having random messages sent to me which were vague and then hostile whilst I am off sick was not appropriate.

But your manager just indicated unofficially that it might be possible through an upcoming restructure , now that it was not the case. I think you are reading more in than necessary. Additional headcount carries extra cost, especially with ni increases, but you have the right to ask formally to hr and get a proper response. Put forward a business case as to how it does not disadvantage the workload.

You are not being financially sensible.
It is not wise to drop your hours just so that you can do more housework to your high standards.
You need financial independence for the long term, and a decent pension.

Is all this overtime properly paid? If not, just don't do it. Only do the hours you are paid for.

Don't do voluntary overtime just to help out the team - you are being a mug, and disguising the true workload situation. Only do overtime if you genuinely want to.

Grow a thicker skin if your manager starts getting hostile about you being sick - you can't help being sick. But watch carefully and if they cross the line into harassment, bullying, or discrimination, start keeping evidence.

You’ve been there for a year and already had quite a lot of sick time and requested to halve your hours. I can see why she suggested you leave.

Financially I didn't need to work full time. I took the job as it was flexible allowing me to pick up my kids from school and make up the time (as its fully remote).

I still wanted an income so that I didn't eventually have to rely on anyone and there's only for so long you can cut into your savings.

And to the other person who said you can see why she wants me to leave...I do more work than others in the team. Yes I was unfortunate to have these reocurring absences. It happens..what can I do? But if you have someone in your team who works hard, does overtime & has been flexible when needed I would hope that would outweigh the absences.

I'm not going to leave the job. If they don't reduce my hours then I'll just have to manage. But I'm not going to be so willing to do overtime anymore.

Yes but you didn’t put your request in the correct way. You should have put in a formal flexible working request initially

I am sorry you have been sick. It’s so difficult to think clearly if you are ill and isolated from normal patterns.

Can you get a cleaner or any help with the household tasks? It is all feeling too much as it is very tricky to do everything.

Maybe some childcare once or twice a week and a cleaner will take some pressure off of you and let you stay full time if you are enjoying it.

You say you are a little bit Monica and sometimes it doesn’t have to be perfect, it can be just good enough.

Yes I did know that. I went down the informal route initially as there wasn't a need to make it formal. They were still in the initial stages of deciding what they could allow the team in terms of recruitment.
Just like I am aware of the flexible working, I am also aware that the conversations my manager had with me regarding the hours were not appropriate at this time because I am currently off sick. I am due back next week so the conversation should have been held off till then.