Team managers - how do you deal with people that take the piss?

[Arcticstorm]

I’m a team manager, oversee a team of 6 who basically act like sodding kids at every opportunity.

I was their colleague who was promoted into a manager position and I feel like I’ve never gained their respect. As I worked in the team I understood the issues and promised to make the job as pleasant as possible. I’ve reduced the time they spend on phone calls, but now when they are meant to be on the phone they start wandering around, long toilet breaks, going off and preparing for things that have nothing to do with the job in hand.

I’ve got people who want to WFH left right and centre when their kids are ill - how on earth they think they can WFH whilst looking after vomiting toddlers I don’t know.

They will pick easy jobs leaving shitty jobs for others, have no care for team playing etc, it’s like they’ve become feral now there’s someone in charge. I made it clear that I would do my best to make the team a happy place to work and it seems that it’s been taken as I’ll let them do what they like and take the piss.

I am tempted to hold a meeting to have a word with them all but one of the things that was complained about was blanket ‘telling off’ when it was only two or three that were at fault.

Im genuinely sick of their games and a blatant lack of respect (they just go off and do what they like - apply for other internal jobs and don’t tell me etc).

Any tips on how to regain control without going overboard and being a horrible manager? I don’t know how to approach this - I’ve probably made a rod for my own back by remaining as a friend to them and not a manager. I’m now being taken advantage of.

You'll have to deal with it individually and be specific about the issue, too. What kind of industry are you in? Do you have regular 1.1 meetings with them? Is there an appraisal process? Do they have targets or KPIs? It sounds like hard work though op!

I wasn’t going to comment as I couldn’t be bothered, however, two things massively bothered me about this 😡

The first is this comment: I’ve got people who want to WFH left right and centre when their kids are ill

And then this: they just go off and do what they like - apply for other internal jobs and don’t tell me etc

Firstly, do you know how bloody hard work it is to coordinate work and children? And then have unwell children, and have to manage childcare, work, home etc? They could not work at all, so the fact they are asking to WFH shows that they have respect, otherwise they wouldn’t bother and just have the day off. Trust me.

Secondly, you are their team manager, not god. Why the hell do they have to tell you that they are applying for other jobs? Perhaps look deeper into why they are applying for them and want to get away from you.

I work for an amazing company who are the complete opposite of what it sounds like there.

They are kind, caring, understanding and supportive. They understand situations and life, and in turn, employees respect them and don’t take the piss. My son is poorly? No problem. They need help? No problem. Treat people with respect and as adults and it works. We have hardly any turnover of staff because of the kind, supportive company that they are.

In an ideal world, you could sack them off.

You dont sound like you are cut out to be a manager.

I'd say find another job and rebuild your self respect, since you arent getting any from the "team" you manage now.

Have you got much management training and support? Is your boss backing you up and supported the transition. It sounds a hard place to be a manager.

I would have a combination of team building work - setting collective expectations and goals . Alongside this reset the individuals kpis and start pulling them up. Offering support but also implementing pips for repeat poor performance.
Being firm about expectations and consistent doesn't mean being a dragon. You aren't their friend now but you can be firm and friendly.
There will be pushback as you deal with this. You will need yoir bosses support and your peers

I am a team manager and lucky enough to have respect from my team. I come across and confident and really empower them all. However it has helped that they never used to be my colleagues. I started in the team by giving flexibility in areas such as 'I need to WFH for xyz'. In return, they give back. You need to ask yourself, are they taking the piss or are your standards too high.

It doesn't sound like you address these issues individually? If you address it in a team environment, they may not even think you're speaking to them. Address issues one on one, in the moment or as soon as possible. Explain that you feel disrespected and you will no longer tolerate. Make sure you document all these conversations you have.

And I would say most of us make a lot of mistakes as we become managers - I was too soft earlier on which is fine with lovely people but doesn't work in challenging situations. Every one I know who is a strong manager now is really honest about all the mistakes they made along the way

One of the hardest management shifts is to promote on to the team you were a member of.

You need to take control. Look at your key team objectives, company behaviours and responsibilities. If they aren't being met you need to start documenting why they aren't and outline how the team needs to close the gap.

The worst type of manager is a micro manager, but sometimes that's what you need to do to rebalance things. Allocate work.

Introduce weekly check in s. Follow the exact same format. Tie them directly to your deliverable objectivesm What are their inputs and required outputs. Go over their delivery for the week and their plans for the up coming week and team stand ups. Every morning. 10 minutes max.
Outline what 100% needs to be delivered that day.

Keep it firm but fair. Make sure you call out quick wins for the team, positive calls or, interaction with each other and other departments or stakeholders.

I work for a great employer have WFH flexibility and it's part of the internal application process you need to select that you have notified your current manager of your application.

apply for other internal jobs and don’t tell me etc.

I wouldn't expect anyone to have to tell their manager at the 'applying for jobs' stage, internal or not. Maybe if you got through to sift, but there's no obligation to tell you until they are offered the job. I appreciate why it would be nice to have a heads up but can't see how it's disrespectful if they don't?

I am tempted to hold a meeting to have a word with them all but one of the things that was complained about was blanket ‘telling off’ when it was only two or three that were at fault.

But it sounds like it is all of them now, so a meeting would be appropriate. I think you need to choose what is most important to you and address that. Pissing around when they are supposed to be working is fine, as is cherry picking jobs - - basically anything you can evidence and you can prove is having an effect on work getting done.

I'd stay away from anything that relates to your 'feelings' about being disrespected etc and keep it as factual as possible. If the WFH thing only affects a few of them then, no, don't bring it up to everyone, keep that for 1-1 discussions.

I was like you, came from being in their team to managing them at its a hard transition. It's hard, no one is born with the skills of a manager and it's easy to make mistakes. Ignore the mean comment about you not being cut out to be a manager, it's unhelpful and every manager has started somewhere.

Firstly, plan your 1:1s. What is the specific issue with each team member. Can you bring evidence, failed KPIs for example, what your policies say compared to what they're doing etc. Ask them how they think it's going, have they got any positives or negatives?

Re wfh, it's not a hill I would die on tbh. Flexibility breeds good feeling, but if they take the piss then you deal. It's so hard juggling work and sick kids, as a manager you need to make this easier for your staff not harder.

Pick your battles. You don't need to not be friends, but you do need to have that barrier between you as a friend and you as their manager.

It's hard, I just had to give my staff member a warning today that he is facing a Pip, he is also a friend, but he respects my position as manager and took it all on board. I don't doubt he will turn it around.

But seriously, pick your battles. If it's not a policy breach, and not affecting the work they need to do so are meeting KPIs do you really want to start fighting this?

For most of your post you have a point but this

I'm genuinely sick of their games and a blatant lack of respect (they just go off and do what they like - apply for other internal jobs and don’t tell me etc).

is ridiculous. They don't have to tell you they've applied for another job. Inside or outside the company.

If they've turned feral it's your lack of effective management. They see you as a pushover because you're being a pushover. If they're all misbehaving then give them the blanket telling off and who cares what they think. If it's just one or two then speak to them individually. You're the boss, they don't have to like you just respect you. If WFH is inappropriate say no. If they're not staying focused on task start to have an expectation of regular updates from them, where no further progress made is an unacceptable answer.

Expecting people to care about their job is too much frankly. Most people go to work to get paid and that's it. Most people have at least a bit of a selfish streak and will do what's best for them eg picking the easy jobs. Even those without a major selfish streak will see what others are doing and decide the only way to level the playing field is to join in and do the same. So implement a system whereby jobs have to be done in order so nobody is picking and choosing. If toilet breaks are a problem then you need a new rule that toilet breaks are to be taken in break times and outside of that they need to ask, to ensure there's enough people covering the phones.

At the end of the day you're a manager, so you need to manage them, not just sit there supervising whilst everything turns to shit. You can't be their friend now, you're no longer 'one of the gang', you're the boss. It's the downside of being promoted above your peers.

Are you in a part of the public sector where you are supposed to tell your LM you've applied for something? It's true in my org (you have to tick a box to say you've spoken to them), a dim view is taken if you don't and they can stop you moving. Otherwise, you're being unreasonable about that.

how on earth they think they can WFH whilst looking after vomiting toddlers I don’t know. can be quite easy if child has finished vomiting but is now just needing to snuggle on sofa watching a bit of tv.

Re- internal jobs it looks worse on them when you've not been told so don't worry about it. They don't owe you any explanation.

I think you might be best using your experience there to find a management role elsewhere where the team aren't people you've been promoted over