Anyone know anything about honorary contracts?

[WhatFreshHellisThese]

I'm working in healthcare for organisation A, I'm paid by organisation A and managed by organisation A. But work with patients from organisation B and work locations organisation B manage. I have a contract with organisation A and l am a permanent member of staff. I work alongside people from organisation A and organisation B

My understanding is we are meant to have an honorary contract with organisation B as well. But l don't and none of colleague do. This all came to my attention after one of my colleagues was the victim of bullying, after doing some whistle blowing. She wants to go down the tribunal route. Problem is she really wants to take organisation B to a tribunal, as it was their staff who did the bullying. Organisation B said she doesn't work for them so can't go down that route. Organisation A said it wasn't their staff who did it so it's not their issue either

I have asked organisation A about the status of honorary contracts. They are fobbing me off basically. Telling me they are "trying" to find honorary contracts. Problem is they don't exist and they don't seem to want to introduce them either

I’m now not sure what to do next

There is no such thing in law, and even if you had one it would be meaningless and you would still not be able to take a tribunal out against organisation B because they are not your employer in law.

It is possible that organisation A may still be liable but it would be a complex case and you would need detailed legal advice - probably from a barrister as this is beyond the remit of most employment law solicitors. The cost for that alone would probably make it prohibitive unless your colleague is in a union or has legal insurance. To be honest I suspect that even legal insurance would consdier this to not meet their threshold of probability, but a union might well be interested due to the potential for setting legal precedent.

So l can't insist on getting an honorary contract formalised? I am more after day to day protection should l have an accident, if there is a false allegation against me etc.

My colleague is dealing with her own situation with her union -she is with a different union.

Yes you should have an honorary contract in place for safeguarding purposes, and yes you should insist on this before entering organisation B because you don't really have protection and they also could be liable if something went wrong.

I'm sorry but @maria2bela1 is incorrect. Honorary contracts do not exist in employment law. Some voluntary organisations use them for volunteers. They have utterly no meaning in employment law. Your employer is responsible for any "day-to-day protections" - the contract is between you and your employer, and the third party organisation plays no part in that. Your employer, as a legal entity itself, can enter into a legal agreement with the third party organisation if it wishes, but it is under bo obligation to do so, and that would still provide you with no legal protection underwritten by B - it would be for A to enact any provisions towards you and for B to be liable for those to A.

Basically, B cannot offer you any employment protections - they do not employ you. Full stop. There is no way to form an employment relationship with someone who does not in any way employ you. Your situation is far from unique - it is your employer A who is at all times and in all ways responsible for you during the period of your employment. So, for example, if you have an accident, they should investigate the circumstances, and their employers liability insurance operates where relevant. They or their insurer may wish to take action against B and their insurer if B's actions are responsible for your accident. Similarly, it is for A to inveistage any disciplinary or grievances during your employment. And your responsibility for safeguarding are similarly to A, and if B requires something changing it is for B to communicate that to A.

You cannot insist on an honorary contract, and if you did get one it would in no way whatsoever change anything about the employment relationship - A cannot delegate responsibility for your employment relationship to anyone else. They will always retain the only legal responsibility - anything that says otherwise is not worth the paper it is written on.