HR Advice needed about NWDs and Monday

[Clearinguptheclutter]

worked in the same company quite a long time always had my NWD as a monday. I was under the impression that for bank holiday mondays I got an extra 80% of those days as annual leave to use when I wanted, and thus having a NWD on a monday was better than any other day. This was due to a conversation I had with a HR lady now moved on (hence don't have this in writing). It now looks ike I didn't do the maths properly and the new HR person is adamant that basically its tough luck and I get less days off in total as a result of having monday as NWD. There is alot on the internet that suggests that I definitely should be gettting 80% of the Monday bank holidays "back" however is there anything out there i can show to my HR Director to show that its actually a legal obligation (if indeed it is?). Thank you.

NWD as Monday works out better because otherwise you have to use your annual leave to be off on a bank hol. As a part timer my holiday does not include bank hols so I have to use my days to cover Xmas day etc.

Er yes, you're entitled to them pro rata - but it's worth remembering it's 80% of all bank holidays, so any that fall on other weekdays will use up a bit of your entitlement as well.

It should be written in your contract or holiday policy if you have one? Are you allocated annual leave which Inc Bank Holidays, or do you get X days, plus bank holidays?

sorry to add nobody works on a bank holiday and nobody has to use AL to be off on a bh either

The way this should work is you get your pro rata annual leave and pro rata bank holidays entitlement. This makes up your total leave entitlement. If a BH falls on one of your working days you have use some of your total leave entitlement to book it off. As most BH fall in a Monday it is therefore advantageous to have Mondays as your non working day.

Assuming you get the statutory minimum - 20 days plus 8 days bank holiday - but work equivalent of 4 working days a week, your total entitlement is 80% of 28 = 22.4 days. (Nb easier to use hours to work this out, if you're part time)

On a bank holiday that isn't a Monday, you need to use some of that to cover the day. E.g. Good Friday.

But as Monday isn't a day you work, you don't need to use any leave that day, so therefore can take it another time.

https://www.moorepay.co.uk/holiday-entitlement-part-time-calculator/

Remember it will balance out to some extent as you will have to ‘pay back’ some of the time for the BHs that don’t fall on a Monday ( entitled to 80% if you work 80% FTE equally over 4 days).. When I worked part time leave was calculated in hours partly for this reason.

You're right, HR lady is wrong. You cannot be treated less favourably than a FT worker.

As PPs have said, HR should work out the total number of holidays that a FT worker gets, including BHs, and find 80% of that to work out your total number of days, so if a FT worker gets 22 days + 8 BHs, totalling 30 days (for the sake of easy maths) you are entitled to 24 days off a year.

www.acas.org.uk/part-time-workers

If you don't work Mondays you would be most unlikely to have to pay back any bank holidays. I used to do the calculations at work for my 4 partners and 2 salaried workers.

The ones who never worked a Monday always got extra days still owed to them to take off. One lady was part time and worked all day Monday and some years depending on Christmas/new year she had to pay days back. I was half time and worked half day Monday so usually ended up even for the BH.

Definitely not tough lunch though.

Go onto the gov.uk website and type in bank holidays. There's a calculator on there you can use to show how many holidays you should get.

Is it in your employment contracts to get xx days of paid holiday plus paid bank holidays? If so the calculation is as per the following example:

Full-time employee working 5 days a week gets 20 days holiday plus 8 bank holidays = 28 paid days off a year (albeit 8 of those are on set dates: the bank holidays)

Part-time employee working 4 days a week (NWD Mondays) gets 20 days of holiday plus 8 days of bank holidays = 28, which are then pro-rated to 4/5ths (or 80%) which = 22.4 paid days holiday. You then need to deduct the bank holidays that fall on your working days from that figure, in order to leave you with the number of days you can book on whatever dates you want. E.g. if there are 3 bank holidays in 2025 that are on a Tue, Wed, Thu or Fri, you are left with 19.4 paid days to take when you want. That would be rounded up to 19.5 because holiday can’t be rounded down (employment law).

Sorry for the waffly numerical example but that was the easiest way I could explain! Hope that makes sense. Your HR person is not correct that it’s ’tough luck’ that your NWD falls on a bank holiday, because all of your colleagues are being paid for that day off but by your HR person’s logic, you’d be getting zilch.

Whatever full time staff get you would get ⅘ of if you work 4 days including ⅘ of any bank holidays.

If you work 4 days then the minimum leave you're entitled to to 4 x 5.6 weeks = 22.4 days (assuming full time staff get 28 days)

Just noticed my post has crossed over with some other replies which also correctly say the same thing. Hope that helps OP!

I'm getting increasingly confused.com here but I dont think I'm looking at it the righ way which proably doesnt help

My allowance is before the prorata-ing is 25 days plus 5 discretionary/unofficial days (Christmas - we don't choose these and they are not a contractual obligation) plus 8 BH. Total 38.
I get 31 days which seems to be accurately (just over) 80% but I can only actually book 23 because the other 8 are down as bank holidays. this is what I don't understand.

I don't have to use up leave on BHs. None of us do.

My understanding is that I should be getting
20 days - 80% of 25
the five discretionary/unofficial days which sometimes fall on a monday - I don't expect any special treatment for these
plus the number of days that bank holidays fall on a monday x 0.8. this year there are four so that makes 3.2 so let's say 3.
That is 33 days not 31

Admittedly its only two days, I am just a bit perturbed that the HR person is suggesting that I am definitely disadvantaged and should ask my manager about changing my NWDs if I am not happy

It wholly depends on what your contract says. My last job was 25 days plus bank holidays so i got them pro rata. If your contract is eg 28 days and no mention of bank holidays then you are not entitled to them.

I would call ACAS for advice. It is worth noting that you shouldn't be discriminated against as a part time worker and if other people are essentially getting more paid leave than you then this is effectively happening.

Your non-working day cannot be counted as a holiday.

If you get 31 days, then all of these should be able to be taken Tue-Fri, they cannot claim you took them on Monday.

A few of them will be taken up by BHs not on Monday- Good Friday, Xmas, Boxing Day and 1st Jan in 2024, so you would be left with 27 days that you should be allowed to take whenever it's mutually convenient.

Share the ACAS page I've linked with them further up and say that you are being disadvantaged by your PT status. If you don't get anywhere, call the ACAS helpline for more assistance.

contract says

1. Holiday entitlement is 33 days holiday each year, inclusive of any bank holidays.

2.You may also be provided with an additional discretionary 3-5 days a annual leave to cover the Christmas shut down period

1. Part time entitlement is pro rata.

So 80% of 33 is 26.4 days.

If everybody gets a week off for Xmas without using any of the 33 days, you should also get a week off for Xmas without using any of the 33 days.

Jan 1st and Good Friday would have to be taken within that 26.4.

This would leave you with 24.4 days to book when you want.

This is correct.

Then you should get 33 days pro rated. Discretionary days I am unsure of... I got mine pre-rated in my old job. We used a HR consultant and she was pretty good...

When my mum worked a job share, she worked Mondays and Tuesdays, they were shut Wednesdays, her job share worked Thursday Friday and they did alternate Saturdays.

My mum ended up having to pay time back, using her holidays or toil to cover bank holiday Mondays... her job share got given the full bank holiday back as an extra day!!!
It was the most unfair way of working out hours I have ever come across.

Both of them should have had 4 days of "bank holiday leave" in addition to their pro-rata'd A/L as they both worked 0.5. If more than 4 of the bank holidays fell on a Monday then they would be counted as a day of A/L for your Mum.

I used to work part time including Mondays. The fact I was part time meant I was only entitled to a proportion of Bank Holidays. Because there were more Bank Holidays than I was entitled to, my choice was a) work on a Bank Holiday or b) use Annual Leave to cover the difference. My solution was to change my working days so Monday is now my NWD. I still get my Bank Holiday entitlement, which I can use for Christmas and New Year when these fall in the middle of the week. On other years, I get a little extra annual leave.

25 + 8 = 33 days
⅘ × 33 = 26.4 days holiday (ignore the discretionary days if you don't need to count them)
Deduct any bank holidays that fall on a working day i.e. don't deduct any that fall on a Monday as that's a non working day.