Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Any rights to a contract sooner (extension of FTC)

13 replies

Ladymuck2022 · 12/01/2025 18:30

Hi,

I’m currently in a fixed term contract for local govt that was meant to end early April this year. When I started in the role a contract didn’t reach me until a couple of months after I started so I’m concerned this may well happen again and I’ve had difficulties regarding the leave entitlement understanding as it is laid out in current contract. I started asking a month ago and it has culminated with me going to book what leave I believed I had left in current year, being told my LM needs to re-calculate.

In November last year very much out of the blue and no reasons given I was told of their intentions (email written) to extend for a further 8 months but no sign since then of a contract, I’ve tried to be as lenient as aware changes may come to the organisation I’m currently in but recently this has come across as the changes aren’t due until in theory after I’d have left even with the extended contract date so I’m confused to let this go.

I did read on here no contract stating otherwise means I should treat it as ending on the date I currently have on the contract.

Also would you try and get a permanent job this January or next?

Many thanks for any opinions.

OP posts:
JoyousPinkPeer · 12/01/2025 18:34

Retain the email - print it off.
They have notified you that they are varying your contract so that is enough to change the end date.

Ladymuck2022 · 12/01/2025 20:10

Thank you, I appreciate I’m well late and should have piped up before now but do you think I should ask why they are extending.

It doesn’t make sense, why you would keep someone one beyond 12 months when they start accruing the right to sick pay.

The current contract doesn’t read as a rolling one.

I’m totally mixed up I don’t like the job, haven’t learnt much and wonder how this will make me feel at the very end when possibly heading for ‘intentional unemployment’ but on the other hand this situation makes me feel like a fraud even though I don’t feel I’m currently in the most stable of employment, but then neither is a new job I know.

OP posts:
EmmaMaria · 12/01/2025 20:43

I'm a bit confused. It is entirely up to them if they want to extend the contract. There is no requirement to explain your reasoning. If you don't like the job then you can resign any time you want. So what is the problem?

JoyousPinkPeer · 12/01/2025 21:50

JoyousPinkPeer · 12/01/2025 18:34

Retain the email - print it off.
They have notified you that they are varying your contract so that is enough to change the end date.

Can you please advise the wording of the email regarding extending the contract.

Ladymuck2022 · 13/01/2025 13:45

JoyousPinkPeer · 12/01/2025 21:50

Can you please advise the wording of the email regarding extending the contract.

It reads literally as an email from the team manager
I am pleased to say that we are in a position to offer an extension on your fixed term contract with us.
Your current fixed term contract is due to end xx Apr 25. The extension would take you to xx Dec 25.
Please let me know by return email and I will make sure all matches up with HR records.

I just can’t remember if this was before or after it came out the white paper/consultation may mean a change. I did not ask them if an extension was ever possible and no over exaggerations were made at interview so I remember being surprised to receive it and I genuinely have a current contract with an end date with the email arriving during a time when they were doing a recruitment drive for more staff. I appreciate 8 months employment probably doesn’t appeal much to anyone and I read staff reviews far too late where it seems usual they just keep giving you further ftc’s.

OP posts:
Mumofoneandone · 13/01/2025 13:48

Please get some legal advice on this especially the fixed term contract but. There are only a limited number of reasons for a contract to be allowed to be fixed term ie a maternity leave cover.
Equally, if you aren't happy in the job, stick with it whilst you job hunt!

EmmaMaria · 13/01/2025 14:34

Mumofoneandone · 13/01/2025 13:48

Please get some legal advice on this especially the fixed term contract but. There are only a limited number of reasons for a contract to be allowed to be fixed term ie a maternity leave cover.
Equally, if you aren't happy in the job, stick with it whilst you job hunt!

I am interested in which law says that fixed term contracts are only legal in specific circumstances. The reason being that in 40+ years of representing members, I have never come across that law - despite fixed term contract being common in my area of work. Could you please reference the relevant law?

OP - you have an email, so you don't need a new contract. The other terms remain as stated originally, it is just the end date that is varied.

You are working in a local authority, many of whom have (a) budgetary pressures and/or (b) "funny money" - external funding that is time limited. Therefore fixed term contracts like this are commonplace either because the budget for certain areas of work cannot be guaranteed, or because the money itself is time limited and they have no control over that. At a guess, I would say that your post is very likely paid for under (b) - in these circumstances posts are often extended for a variety of reasons which may include underspend on a budget being allowed to carry over, additional funding becoming available from the source or (linked to the latter) a change of policy or government means that the government /funder wants to "change or review" their spending and they allow an interim continuation whilst they get their new ducks in a row.

Fixed term contracts are virtually the norm in much of the public sector now, but if this is your only reason for concern, then I would advise you just get on. In local government they have pretty much as much security as any other post - they can be extended, or they can be terminated with proper notice. "Permanent contracts" are only as permanent as the length of your notice period! If you have seen the redundancies etc in the public sector now you would understand that there really is very little difference in terms of security.

In almost everything the law treats people with fixed term contracts exactly the same as other employees. The same is true of most local authorities, and that is often better than the law does! When contracts are coming to an end, whether or not you have two years employment, most authorities treat you as redundant and offer exactly the same redeployment opportunities as any other employee would get. Once you hit the two year mark you are also entitled to redundancy pay and whilst that is true for all employees, local authority redundancy pay (if not redeployed) is often paid at a higher rate than statutory.

If you like the job and/or want to remain with a local authority, chill and stop worrying! You can apply for internal positions if something you fancy comes along. If it doesn't then all things being equal you have a years work, and a good chance of potential redeployment rather than unemployment. I think you are overthinking this - probably because you are relatively new to local authority work? What you are describing has been the norm for well over a decade, in some areas of work 2-3 decades! It is significantly less worrying that people often think. Local authority culture is significantly different from the private sector. It isn't perfect, but they tend to be honest. If they have only two years funding for a post right now they use fixed term contracts and tell you. More often than not the private sector don't because it's fine - they can get rid of you whenever they want anyway, so why bother with a little thing called transparency?

JoyousPinkPeer · 13/01/2025 14:49

Ladymuck2022 · 13/01/2025 13:45

It reads literally as an email from the team manager
I am pleased to say that we are in a position to offer an extension on your fixed term contract with us.
Your current fixed term contract is due to end xx Apr 25. The extension would take you to xx Dec 25.
Please let me know by return email and I will make sure all matches up with HR records.

I just can’t remember if this was before or after it came out the white paper/consultation may mean a change. I did not ask them if an extension was ever possible and no over exaggerations were made at interview so I remember being surprised to receive it and I genuinely have a current contract with an end date with the email arriving during a time when they were doing a recruitment drive for more staff. I appreciate 8 months employment probably doesn’t appeal much to anyone and I read staff reviews far too late where it seems usual they just keep giving you further ftc’s.

That wording is definitely OK- they've officially extended your contract.

Ladymuck2022 · 13/01/2025 17:22

Thank you for the guidance, yes I get about majority of councils giving fixed terms and indeed come August I could be greeted with another extension, all the while getting older and less attractive to other employers.

It takes them a long time to do anything I’ve learnt after trying to get to the bottom of the correct leave entitlement and I think I’m going to seriously consider resigning first.

OP posts:
AndSoFinally · 14/01/2025 08:22

I am interested in which law says that fixed term contracts are only legal in specific circumstances. The reason being that in 40+ years of representing members, I have never come across that law - despite fixed term contract being common in my area of work. Could you please reference the relevant law?

Probably not helpful as I don't know the actual law, but I have been told the same by our HR department (NHS). I can offer a fixed term contract for specific circumstances eg mat leave cover, or for a project with one off funding, but unless there is some fundamental change at the end of the FT (such as money running out or someone coming back into post after leave) the candidate would have a good case for saying the role was still relevant and therefore they needed to stay on. Basically, FTC are fine in certain situations, but if you're using it to "try before you buy" in a particular role, you may have trouble ending the contract at the specified time. I wanted to offer a FTC for a year in a hard to fill role that needed a very specific personality type, with a view to making it permanent if they were a good fit, and was told I absolutely couldn't do this for the above reason. I would guess this is the kind of situation the pp refers to?

EmmaMaria · 14/01/2025 11:18

AndSoFinally · 14/01/2025 08:22

I am interested in which law says that fixed term contracts are only legal in specific circumstances. The reason being that in 40+ years of representing members, I have never come across that law - despite fixed term contract being common in my area of work. Could you please reference the relevant law?

Probably not helpful as I don't know the actual law, but I have been told the same by our HR department (NHS). I can offer a fixed term contract for specific circumstances eg mat leave cover, or for a project with one off funding, but unless there is some fundamental change at the end of the FT (such as money running out or someone coming back into post after leave) the candidate would have a good case for saying the role was still relevant and therefore they needed to stay on. Basically, FTC are fine in certain situations, but if you're using it to "try before you buy" in a particular role, you may have trouble ending the contract at the specified time. I wanted to offer a FTC for a year in a hard to fill role that needed a very specific personality type, with a view to making it permanent if they were a good fit, and was told I absolutely couldn't do this for the above reason. I would guess this is the kind of situation the pp refers to?

That would be policy - not law. There is no such law. It would be correct that it may be risky to simply terminate a fixed term contract at the end of the contract without reason but it is highly unlikely that a continuing need for the work to be done, on it's own, would lead to a successful claim. Terminating the contract and then replacing the person with someone else doing the work might. But if the person doesn't have two years service in most cases it is moot anyway.

Fixed term contracts are an interesting legal anomaly. Back in the Dark Ages (i.e when I was young) they had massive detriments. Basically on a fixed term contract there was no right to redundancy payments, and less employment security. Employers used them to get out of employment law terms. That was why the "four year rule" was introduced - after four years you could ask to be made "permanent" and the employer could only refuse if they had a good reason. Not that that made much difference because they often excelled at good reasons.

Over the years subsequent employment law has rolled back those detriments to the extent that there is really very little difference between permanent and fixed term in terms of employment rights. Effectively the only difference is that one tells you when your notice ends up front and the other doesn't. The one major flaw - which is why I think they have served their time and should be got rid of - is that if there is a break in sereve of one week or more, the continuous employment is broken. Whilst that is true of any contract, I have seen some employers (albeit not many) deliberately break service by giving FTC's for 23 months, let them all expire, then re-employing (often only some) people a few weeks later. Certain civil service departments used to do this a lot, and the last I heard one still does in parts of it.

Ladymuck2022 · 15/01/2025 16:53

Thanks for all the info. It was just doing my head in as whilst I state the employer never mis-led me regards the original job term duration I was given the impression we could buy extra leave but this actually became clear it is prevented under the fixed term status along with likes of sick leave eligibility and a few other benefits.

OP posts:
Mumofoneandone · 15/01/2025 17:30

Ladymuck2022 · 15/01/2025 16:53

Thanks for all the info. It was just doing my head in as whilst I state the employer never mis-led me regards the original job term duration I was given the impression we could buy extra leave but this actually became clear it is prevented under the fixed term status along with likes of sick leave eligibility and a few other benefits.

You can't suffer a detriment just because you are on a fixed term contract (ie better conditions for permanent contract holders!)

New posts on this thread. Refresh page