Dental work sickness

[Jammylou]

Can anyone advise if a Doctor is able to give a Fit Note for a dental abcess or does this need to be a Dentist.
I have a staff member who has had a mouth abcess and advised me he needs 4 weeks off and will get a Fit Note from a Doctor.

Why does it matter?

The employee can self certify for 7 days then will need to supply you with a sick note if they are off longer

It would normally be provided by GP. When I had my wisdom teeth out it was my GP that signed me off.

I'm not sure dentists are on the DWP list of HCPs who can issue Fit notes.

Wow must be a really bad mouth ulcer for 4 weeks. I think their taking the piss

If the gp thinks their patient is unfit for work they can issue a fit note.

Dentist here. We can't issue fit notes.
I've never ever in my thirty years in dentistry heard of someone being signed off work for four weeks with a dental abscess.
Generally antibiotics can settle symptoms/swelling within a few days.
Local measures such as draining the infection, extraction and/or starting root canal treatment can sort the problem out immediately. In most cases. A registered pt should be seen within 24 hours for this. An unregistered patient would have access to a primary care/community setting for emergency treatment

I don't think a gp would be comfortable assessing this confidently enough to sign someone off. In my experience they always bat it back to dentist to sort

Staff member advised me that dentist advised 4 weeks absence and staff member was going to a GP for a fit note.
That's why I am wondering if a GO wouod issueva fit note on the staff members wordcas I am seeing more and more fit notes issued without staff even seeing a Dr.

I'm rattling my brain here trying to to work out why or how a dental abscess would require 4 weeks off work. They are at it I think.

Be interested to hear from any other dentists or doctors reading this thread.

Once a pt had a severe abscess that required external drainage, an IV drip and a few days in hospital but that's extremely rare

She didn't say mouth ulcer.

Four weeks for an abscess?!? I would probably ask for something in writing from the dentist to support the fit note from the GP.

My GP doesn’t even prescribe antibiotics for a tooth infection etc. Anything like that gets batted back to the dentist.

Maybe it's for something else and they just don't want to disclose to you.

Exactly. Staff member has poor attendance and performance issues which are being monitored.
I am just wondering how easy they will find getting the Fit note.

Well if they get a fit note , then they are deemed as not fit to work…not much you can do🤷‍♀️

You can’t do that …,if they have a fit note then they are deemed not fit for work….end of

If they get a fit note then fair enough ot alot that can be done however I was just wondering how easy they will get one. It's evident they are taking the proverbial as if it was that bad it would likeky affect their speech and yet spoke as clear as anything on a call to me.

Very unlikely a GP will issue a Fit Note for 4 weeks in the first instance for something like this. As the Dentist on this thread says, the person should be recovered within a few days and a GP will know that.
They may manage to get signed off for a week but I would imagine if they've still got problems at a level they can't work after that then the GP would send them back to the dentist rather than just issue another Fit note!

There have to be simpler ways to get signed off work for a few weeks than to exaggerate dental pain, surely?

The fit note would be entirely based on the patient telling the GP they need a fit note, not the GP’s own assessment.

They may legally be deemed not fit to work but it doesn’t mean they’re not pulling a fast one.

Well no…. But you still can’t ask for anything in addition to a fit note….if a gp deems you not fit to work….then that’s that’s 🤷‍♀️…. Nothing further an employer can ask for

Yes a Doctor can supply a fit note for any reason.

They will be told to self certify for 7 days (which includes weekends and Bank holidays) then they will need to contact the GP for the fit note, this can be requested online from most surgeries, the GP then does a telephone consultation and writes the fit note on that basis. I've just ended up signed of for 6 weeks due to a horrible virus which turned into an even worse chest infection. The GP didn't issue the fit note for 6 weeks, it was a week at a time, come back if you're still feeling rough.

Regarding the dental assessment, perhaps it's more that the problem is being treated by antibiotics and then referral to the hospital for extraction? Only suggesting this as I had a back tooth where the bottom of the tooth had fused together and the dentist couldn't pull it out, told me it required surgery but wouldn't be considered 'urgent' . I then ended up on antibiotics for a month and I suppose could have achieved a 4 week fit note but wasn't that uncomfortable with it (prior to getting the antibiotics definitely couldn't have worked as in way too much pain, took a week to see an 'emergency' dentist as no appointments and no NHS dentists. Perhaps your employee can't afford the cost of the treatment at this point in time.
Alternatively they know their attendance is being investigated and they're looking for another job. In the current climate of GP's doing online and telephone consultations only, providing the paperwork is correct, there's nothing you can do.

My GP surgery won't even prescribe antibiotics for a tooth infection because GPs don't know what they're looking at...yet you think they are qualified and competent to assess someone needing a month off?

Of course they aren't, they are issuing the fit note on trust. All they have to go on is the patient telling them their dentist said they needed a month off. This leaves the system hugely open to abuse.

It really doesn't make sense that the treating clinician (the dentist) cannot provide sick notes for issues outside the GP's area of training and experience.

Dentist of many decades experience here.

Have never , ever had a patient with an abcess who would have needed more than a couple of days off and even that would be rare ie needed incise and drain and IV antibiotics in hospital.

Have never had a dental situation where someone would need longer off than they could self certify and that includes wisdom teeth extraction in hospital .

The only situation where you might need even close to that amount of time would be complex jaw surgery like and bilateral osteotomy (breaking top and lower jaws and refining).

Dentists can’t sign sick notes because there is really no need to .

@Jammylou if you have reason to believe this isn't genuine (and it sounds like there is a pattern here) have you referred the person to your Occ Health provider for assessment? You can ask the employee to sign the forms for permission for OH to seek medical reports.

You can ask OH to explore this medical condition further as the lengthy absence being required sounds like it's definitely not the norm for an abscess according to the dentists in this thread.

Well that’s the way it works…..get over it 🤷‍♀️