Second interview and WFH question

[Cocteautwin6]

I’m currently interviewing for jobs as have opted for voluntary redundancy from my current role. I’ve had a couple of interviews where I’ve gotten close so far (I’m in a digital
role so the jobs market is fairly healthy)

Had an initial interview before Christmas which was just with the hiring manager. I don’t know if this was standard practice or because they liked my CV and wanted to get me in, although I suspect not that many have applied from looking at the Linkedin ad (only 20 odd applicants). This was fairly relaxed, seemingly went well and I was immediately asked back for a second interview with the manager’s manager.

This again was quite unstructured, but in depth - they went through my cv and we discussed the role and how I would approach it.

At the end they said they would like someone to work on site 3 days a week at least. (The ad stated ‘hybrid’ so wasn’t sure how many would be required.) I said I’d hope to negotiate ‘slightly less’ but left it at that. They said I could discuss this with the hiring manager.

I’m unsure of whether this will impact my chances of an offer now, but if they did make an offer with no flex I’m not sure if I’d take it. It’s an hours drive each way and DS is still 3, plus we have no family support with things like picking him up from nursery etc and my husband works full time. My question is - has anyone managed to successfully negotiate WFH/on-site time during this stage of the process?

From home. And I bet most of the Londoners aren't driving!

But when I did work an hour's commute away from home, it was tiring, expensive and often was longer than an hour. I was on public transport, so I did at least get chance to do a bit of life admin on my phone, but there's no getting round that it's unpaid time you can't use for anything else.

It's doable, but it's clearly a downside. A con to be considered alongside the pros when you don't want to work in person that often.

We all are at some point or other. But it’s so destructive for women and their careers and happiness

Won’t say too much but we’re in the West Country. My current commute is 20 mins and before that I was remote for years. I do prefer hybrid but would prefer 60/40.

If it was you WFH FT and him applying for this job I suspect you'd do all the pickups and drop-offs without worrying about fairness. When I went back to work FT (no WFH) >45 mins drive away DH did the majority of the nursery runs as he worked closer, he had no WFH either and we had no one else to help out, we just did what was needed.

It would be a good idea at this point to think ahead to DS starting school, we found that was when it got really difficult with holiday childcare and short days (school wraparound was shorter than full day nursery).

It depends on the employer OP but if they have a policy on office attendance then they will require you to be in that amount of time. I think the employer is doing the right thing here and being upfront with you about it - they need to be fair to all their staff and have the same office attendance expectation for all. It’s up to you as to whether you want to do a job that needs you to be in the office that much along with your commute.

Very good point. He starts reception next year. Lots to consider, if I even get to the offer stage!

I think it’s good that you raised it at the interview, as, like you said, if you got the job and they said they required more office time, you’d then have to turn it down. You’ve saved everyone’s time in that case. My office is an hour away and I do 2/3 days a week so I understand. We made it work around DS pre-Covid with 5 days in the office but it was a real juggle.

I support on recruitment at my company and if we interviewed someone who was the perfect fit but they needed 2 office days vs 3, I’d absolutely consider hiring them and making it work. In fact we were in that situation before when a woman with young children needed a lot of flexibility from the word go, but she was perfect so we made it happen.

Agree. I think it's better for everyone if the employer is clear.

Which is pretty normal isn't it? I'd think nothing of getting a job an hour from home.

It takes me an hour to go the 11km to work on the bus, so I think the hour commute is a bit of a red herring.

If requirement is 3 days per week in the office, then IME they won't negotiate that unless there are exceptional reasons - otherwise everyone will want the same.

I agree with feeling guilty! But your husband works full time from home and is in an established role. Does he have flexibility?
My work cannot be done from home (I'm a nurse!) work x2 13 hour shifts one week and x3 13 hours shifts the next week.
So my husband had to do the pick ups and drops offs! Zero guilt as his job is more flexible! Mam guilt yes as a long day I miss her going to bed etc!
But needs must!
If the job suits you, pay etc go for it!
Marriage and parenting is about compromise!

Definitely don't take this advice!

If they've said it's 3 days per week in the office, and you agree to it then only go in on two, your card will be marked from the beginning.

It's a totally different thing to negotiate 2 days a week in good faith from the outset (which they might accept), or start with 3 days a week and then later down the line see how strict that is in practice, or ask for a bit more flexibility.

OP, there's no harm asking to negotiate to 2 days a week (or even 2 days one week, 3 days the next) if they offer you the job. Depending on their culture and how difficult they're finding it to recruit will make a difference here.

FWIW I don't think 3 days a week is particularly unusual for a hybrid company, nor 1 hour an excessive commute (though it does depend if that's one hour in rush hour or one hour best case scenario) and if your husband WFH then no bad thing for him to pick up the load of nursery drop offs and pick ups 3 days a week.

But you will know how sought after your skills are, how easily you'll find another job, and how appealing this one is to you, and choose accordingly whether it's worth going for if they won't flex on the days in the office.

I totally agree. A 1 hour drive is perfectly normal, I do it in London. Mine is about 45 mins in the school holidays and at least an hour in term time. I don’t consider it particularly long or onerous. Equally I think 3 days in the office is pretty much the norm now. See if you can negotiate 2 days but I think that hybrid 3 in 2 out is going to be the standard for most companies and fill WFH very much the exception