Why is it, One telephone conversation with my boss is enough to make me cry?!

[lisad123]

Long story shortish:

Im on Mat leave and have paid leave until May but can have till SEpt off. I have 228hours Annual leave to take, as most of last year I was off sick with pregnancy stuff.
I didnt promise to go back, so didnt get the benefit of 12weeks extra 1/2 pay. However, after discussions with HR yesterday we worked out that if I can "go back on 18hours" I could then take the 228hour leave and therefore would have gone back for 13 weeks. If I go back to my job for 13 weeks I get the 12weeks 1/2 half as a lump sum. Does that make sense? So although I would be back to work on paper, I would never physically have to go back and then could hand my notice in.
I know it sounds like Im trying to get every penny I can, but have worked for them for 8 years.
My boss called and said nope, cant do, you didnt take the 12weeks in the first place your loss. Told me she wanted my 4 weeks notice and my AL will be paid in one huge lump sum! So I miss out on over £1K
Im in tears now, and think I will make her wait it out till Sept now, just to be a pain. I know she has someone lined up for my job.

Sorry was meant to be short, thanks if you got this far.

does anyone know if she can do this? leggally where do i stand?

Oh lisa, sorry you're going through this, employers can't be so nasty sometimes.

If you worked it out with HR then I should think that legally you are entitled to what they have outlined to you. I would speak to HR again, explain the conversation you have had and how it's made you feel. I'm fairly sure your boss can't ask for your notice like that but hope someone with some legal exp will come along shortly.

Is there nothing written in your employment contract about maternity leave?

I think you need to speak to HR again and ask them to put everything in a letter to you. I don't know how your boss can say no when HR have said yes?

Yes, talk to HR
Try reading government web pages which will give you the lowdown on maternity pay entitlement.
Ignore your boss, just work with HR and payroll.

Is it a small business lisa?

no its not a small company lisa works for. (am her sister)

I would have thought they would have to following HR procedure then, and her boss probably wouldn't need to get involved.

Not sure if I've followed this right so correct me if I'm wrong...

If you had told them before going on maternity leave that you were definitely going back then you would have been entitled to 12 weeks worth of extra half pay on your return to work? As long as you for them for 13 weeks you wouldn't need to pay any of it back?

You dont want to actually go back to work, but you'd like to 'technically' go back to work on 18 hours per week, but be on holiday the whole time. That way, you would work for the company for 13 weeks, get your extra pay but not ever go back?

From an employers perspective, enhanced pay on return to work is usually offered as an incentive to retain employees. If you didn't follow the correct procedure and they know that you have no plans to come back I imagine they would do everything possible to avoid paying the enhanced wages.

That said, as far as I know, your employer cant demand that you hand in your notice.

If I were you, I'd go back and have a look at your contract & employee handbook and check out exactly what the procedures and rules are in relation to this enhanced payment. Then maybe go back to the HR person and discuss it with them. Did the HR person put this in writing/say that you could definitely do this? Or was it more of a 'you could maybe do this'?

lisa firstly unless and until your employer have your notice in writing, they must work on the assumption you are coming back from maternity leave.

If you are 'on holiday' you are 'back at work', so that would 'count' towards the 13 weeks' service you need. I suspect your boss is trying it on a bit and hasn't spoken to HR, but it's difficult to see what she would gain out of saying what she's said, other than having your notice in writing would allow her to go ahead and appoint this person on a permanent basis to your job.

There is no obligation on the part of the employer to allow you to take your annual leave straight after your maternity leave in this way though. Your boss would be perfectly within her rights to refuse a holiday request like this (and a holiday request for 13 weeks of holiday in one go is a hefty request), leaving you to decide whether to either return to work for 13 weeks or resign.

The other thing I would query is the bit about you and HR working out between you that if you 'go back on 18 hours', you can use your leave in that way, etc. Does going back on 18 hours represent a change to your normal working pattern? If so, and you and HR have worked all this out between you - your hours and your holiday and your boss hasn't been involved, she is probably a bit put out and I wouldn't blame her.

If 18 hours would be a change to your normal hours, you should put it in writing in the form of a flexible working request, or whatever policy you might have, and get it signed off. You may have no intention of actually physically returning to work but if you are hoping to change your hours and be 'on holiday' for 13 weeks, everyone will need to work on the assumption you are coming back until you hand in your notice 4 weeks (or however long your notice period is) before you want to actually leave.

I hope you can sort this out so you get your money. But be aware there is no obligation on your boss to agree to this, and also think about the principle of the policy about extra pay. The extra 12 weeks at half pay is there as an incentive for women to go back to work. You are not doing that, you are looking for a way round the rules to get some money. I don't at all blame you for that, but if it doesn't work out, try not to feel too hard done by.

bitofadramaqueen, yes you got it spot on. I know its not good from my bosses point of view, but doesnt come out of her budget anyways (the lump sum). I work for social services, so a huge company.
The other thing is I do have to return to some sort of work, I cant afford not to. As long as I return to work for the county in ANY role I get my lump sum. I was kinda hoping I could do it that way so had a bit more time with DD and to find a different role.
I guess there isnt a lot more I can do. I have rang HR and explained, and spoke to the same lady that my boss spoke to.
I have an application here for a job, better get filling it out Just wanted a little more time with DD.

There have been several times recently where I've gone to the trouble of writing a long, considered piece of professional advice for someone only to have it completely ignored so it's starting to irritate me.

lisa - if you need to return to some sort of work, then it sounds like you should do as flowery suggests and put in a request for flexible working. Remember there are a number of different flexible working patterns that your employer might be willing to consider. As well as part time, there's condensed hours (longer hours over fewer days), there's also annualised hours (where you agree to a number of hours per year, and agree a work pattern - ie term time only working for example). If your current boss isn't willing to accommodate your request, then your employer might be willing to look elsewhere within the organisation to find something that works.

I wasnt irnogorign you flowery, I did ring HR like you suggested. I also took on board what you said about from a booses point of view.
My boss wont do flexible working, says it doesnt fit in with the service we provide

does anyone else think its wrong to say that you are coming back and lie about it to get extra money that you are not really entitled to?

There should be respect and fairness on both sides.

I don't have anything to add, but just wanted to say FBB that your HR posts are always helpful, clear & considered (& blardy knowledgeable, of course ).
I'm sorry if you feel lately people haven't been aren't appreciating your input - MN needs you!

Hope you get things sorted lisad123 & that your boss & HR can sort something out that works for you.

Your boss can't just say 'we don't do flexible working', that attitude is against the law. She has to consider any request you make in line with statutory procedures and, if refusing, make a busines case for refusal.

The old DTI - now Dept for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, I think - used to have all the employment law up online. Tiger.gov.uk, possibly? Have a google and see if you can find the regs.

weejie I wasnt planning on lying about it, that the point. Im an honest person, and wouldnt do that. As much as I dislike my boss I dont want to lie to her. I have always made it clear I wasnt coming back. I am entitled to it, that my point. If I had taken it mixed in with my materity leave I would have HAD to go back for 13 weeks whether I wanted to or not, this way I wasnt promising anything but seeing I had so many hours owing, seemed a good idea. I am going back to work for the same company, just not the same dep.

thanks fp!

Hi Lisa, I dont blame you for trying, but like flowery said, dont feel too hard done by. Have you thought about flowery's suggestion of going back to work for the 13 weeks? Then you'd get your extra pay and you'd presumably still get your holiday pay in a lump sum when you'd left.

Also, like edam says, they do have to consider requests for flexible working requests (although, unfortunately its not that hard for organisations to come up with a good reason to turn them dow). It sounds like you work in the public sector so I'm surprised they dont consider flexible working requests seriously.

Flowery - I also find the advice you give other people very handy. In fact, just the other day something you posted helped me with something at work .

flowery - thirded . definitely appreciated!

I work for a local authority and have the 12 week half pay thing but it specifically says that if you don't go back for 13 weeks afterwards you have to pay it back and annual leave is excluded from the 13 weeks

sorry that reads terse I'm just tired Maybe you should go in and have a sit down meeting with them to sort out or just with Hr if you don't get on with your boss? I have had all sorts of flexibility since I went back (end of jan) and it was all worked out "locally" with my boss but thats just what worked for me/ us